Christmas thoughts

[Johnv]

I think we should likewise get rid of Arabic numerals.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Are you playing devils advocate or just being ignorant.

There is a serious issue here. As far as I can tell there are a lot of stong opinions with regard to certain Christian beliefs and practices often they are belied as being 1) unscriptural 2) related to paganism 3) and ultimately, a rejection of the truth. But here is the interesting point. This view is like a smorgashbord. For one it will be worship on the jewish Sabbath. For another its decorating Christmas trees. For another it is the use of musical instruments during worship. But there isn't consistency because of accepted "practices" or "beliefs" of each of these people can be attributed to the same things that these people accuse others of doing. One may say we must worship on Saturday. Yet has a christmas tree. One doesn't have a Christmas tree but still celebrates on December 25th. And on and on it goes. Its as though every one has their little pet ordinance against pagan influence yet each one has a pet pagan tradition they like to adhere to that they emphatically defend to the point of questioning other people's salvation for not agreeing with them. Just like people who argue against their accepted practice as being anti-christ. Its hypocritical yet no one sees it. Its like they can't see the speck in their brother's eye for the log within their own but are just as likely to belittle their brother. As we come to the holidays and I see this type of arguing go on (not here but elsewhere) I decided to take the consitent view that all pagan practices are unscriptural to include the ones we hardly think of and in fact I was reminded by a few here of them. And true to form Pet practices are defended tooth and nail yet others are condemned for their pet practices. I condemn them all and was insult by the Rev. who guessed at my playing the devils advocate. Yet I was consistent. And I always uped the anty as I saw fit. How then as christians are we to view each other and practices that some take for granted and others do not? So as much as we claim to be consistent I find that we are not no matter how much we bellow that we are. BTW Arabic numberals were long before islam. Though the numeral 0 was invented by the indian in their polythesitic system. Actually the numberal 0 is actually worshiped by the hindus.

 

[DHK]

This debate is very much like the debate that Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians about meat sacrificed to idols.

No, not quite. Here is what the debate is akin to.
Would Paul change the date of the Passover and put it on the same date as a pagan festival when the meat is sacrificed to idols? The answer would be an absolute NO!

 

[DHK]

they emphatically defend to the point of questioning other people's salvation for not agreeing with them.

That is an unjust accusation that no one is doing, except possibly for the COC when they come on and argue for the necessity of baptism in order for salvation. We do not consider them an evangelical faith, but a cult. The rest of us are not questioning anyone's salvation.

 

[saturneptune]

What is scary is that I'm the only consistent speaker on this thread.

Maybe you should reread all my posts and rephrase that. Never mind, I worship on Sunday and would do nothing different. Disregard post.

 

[saturneptune]

How generous of you! To think that maybe, just maybe some of us poor ignorant Catholics might be saved!

My experience as a former Baptist, now Catholic Christian is that there are MANY Catholics who love Jesus, believe they are saved by His shed blood on the cross and strive to share the Good News of salvation with the lost of this world.

Not generous of me, generous of God. Despite the entire Catholic infrastructure dripping with evil, yes, God still saves.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is a serious issue here. As far as I can tell there are a lot of stong opinions with regard to certain Christian beliefs and practices often they are belied as being 1) unscriptural 2) related to paganism 3) and ultimately, a rejection of the truth. But here is the interesting point. This view is like a smorgashbord. For one it will be worship on the jewish Sabbath. For another its decorating Christmas trees. For another it is the use of musical instruments during worship. But there isn't consistency because of accepted "practices" or "beliefs" of each of these people can be attributed to the same things that these people accuse others of doing. One may say we must worship on Saturday. Yet has a christmas tree. One doesn't have a Christmas tree but still celebrates on December 25th. And on and on it goes. Its as though every one has their little pet ordinance against pagan influence yet each one has a pet pagan tradition they like to adhere to that they emphatically defend to the point of questioning other people's salvation for not agreeing with them. Just like people who argue against their accepted practice as being anti-christ. Its hypocritical yet no one sees it. Its like they can't see the speck in their brother's eye for the log within their own but are just as likely to belittle their brother. As we come to the holidays and I see this type of arguing go on (not here but elsewhere) I decided to take the consitent view that all pagan practices are unscriptural to include the ones we hardly think of and in fact I was reminded by a few here of them. And true to form Pet practices are defended tooth and nail yet others are condemned for their pet practices. I condemn them all and was insult by the Rev. who guessed at my playing the devils advocate. Yet I was consistent. And I always uped the anty as I saw fit. How then as christians are we to view each other and practices that some take for granted and others do not? So as much as we claim to be consistent I find that we are not no matter how much we bellow that we are. BTW Arabic numberals were long before islam. Though the numeral 0 was invented by the indian in their polythesitic system. Actually the numberal 0 is actually worshiped by the hindus.

uh-huh well I have not seen any arguments here based on pagan founding. Why bring arguments form somewhere else here? And where was the insult?

 

[Marcia]

Didn't we have that discussion with the "Triquetra" topic a while ago? Come to think of it, what's wrong with wearing a "Pisces" symbol or an "Ankh"? There's nothing at all wrong with wearing any of these. It's why one wears them that is of importance, and methinks that's the point TS is trying to make here.

The reason I would not wear an ankh or Pisces symbol is because of what those represent in today's culture to those who do use these symbols. I realize the symbol itself is not evil. But it does represent something - it sends a message.

Just as the Italian ambassador does not put the French flag on his car, so I as a Christian would not wear a symbol of astrology. Anyone into astrology would assume I was a believer in it, too (as I once was).

 

[Marcia]

Yes its wrong!!!! You of all people should know about pagan things and our Christian culture is deluged with them!!! Just like the Symbol of a dove for the Holy Spirit that we use is another pagan symbol used in Babylon and homosexuals use the rainbow dove for their purposes today. We should do away with that as well!!!! I think the English Puritans had a point when it came to symbols. I hope you don't listen to that rock music either. Look what happened to Amy Grant. The Devil's about with his symbols!!!! And we're buying into it with everything from celebrating his Sol Invictus on December 25th and Easter who is really Ishtar. I mean the Disciples were Jewish and we're having Easter hams?!? Do away with them!!!!

A cross is not a pagan symbol today. An ankh, yin-yang symbol, pentagram, and others are.

You know, thinkingstuff, you used to not sound like this. Are you the same person as before?

 

[Aaron]

Christmas? A poor excuse for picking a man's pocket every twenty-fifth of December!

 

[Marcia]

Fifty or more years ago you would have never seen an evangelical church with a cross; a steeple perhaps, but not a cross. It was an outward symbol of Roman Catholicism. It is not a symbol of Christianity. When Paul spoke of the cross he was never speaking of a physical image, some beautiful thing to be adorned.

The cross is horrible, ugly, defiled by torn flesh, bloody masses of gruesome body parts. If you want to wear a cross make it real. It wasn't silver or gold. It was wood and rugged and stained with blood.

Would you wear an electric chair around your neck, or the hangman's noose? Why not? The cross was the common method of execution done by the Roman government. It was a means of death. It was not glorious. Remember that two thieves died the same way, one on each side of Christ. Why would anyone want to wear a cross around their neck. It is horrible and gruesome. If your going to do it, make it realistic.
.

This is exactly what Mormons have told me when I asked them why they don't have crosses on their "churches."

I will continue to wear a cross (I do not wear one everyday). It is recognized as a symbol of Christianity, even if it was Catholicism originally.

Yes, the cross was a means of death, and by that death, Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sins. It is a wonderful symbol to me of the price Jesus paid and the atonement.

 

[DHK]

A cross is not a pagan symbol today. An ankh, yin-yang symbol, pentagram, and others are.

You know, thinkingstuff, you used to not sound like this. Are you the same person as before?

A pentagram is simply a geometrical figure used in geometry most days. Both the cross and the pentagram can be classified as common geometric symbols. But the fact is both are symbolic. Both date back before Christianity.

 

[Revmitchell]

A cross is not a pagan symbol today. An ankh, yin-yang symbol, pentagram, and others are.

You know, thinkingstuff, you used to not sound like this. Are you the same person as before?

He is playing devils advocate and wasting your time.

 

[lori4dogs]

He is playing devils advocate and wasting your time.

Not a waste of time at all. You just don't like the fact that you are all guilty of picking a choosing what 'pagan' observances to include in your lives.

Y'all are real quick to accuse Catholics of idolatry and observing pagan customs but when it is pointed out that you might be guilty of this . . . well its all different isn't it!

 

[Revmitchell]

Not a waste of time at all. You just don't like the fact that you are all guilty of picking a choosing what 'pagan' observances to include in your lives.

Y'all are real quick to accuse Catholics of idolatry and observing pagan customs but when it is pointed out that you might be guilty of this . . . well its all different isn't it!

Wooownelly! I am not guilty of anything. I have never gotten into any debate over the pagan founding of anything.Quite frankly I don't care. Much ado about nothing and that be whether you are Christian or Catholic.

 

[lori4dogs]

Wooownelly! I am not guilty of anything. I have never gotten into any debate over the pagan founding of anything.Quite frankly I don't care. Much ado about nothing and that be whether you are Christian or Catholic.

Actually, I'm both a Christian and a Catholic.

 

[lori4dogs]

That is an unjust accusation that no one is doing, except possibly for the COC when they come on and argue for the necessity of baptism in order for salvation. We do not consider them an evangelical faith, but a cult. The rest of us are not questioning anyone's salvation.

Not unjust at all! The 'Revmitchell' just made the comment: Much ado about nothing and that be whether you are Christian or Catholic. I think we can all agree that a person must be a Christian to be saved. Right? Yet, this good man apparently excludes us Catholics.

 

[lori4dogs]

How would it strike you if I were to say, 'it wouldn't matter to me if you were a Christian or a Baptist?

 

[DHK]

Actually, I'm both a Christian and a Catholic.

If you are a Catholic, why does your profile say that you are an Anglican?

 

[saturneptune]

Christmas? A poor excuse for picking a man's pocket every twenty-fifth of December!

Great quote, Hez 2:14