saturneptune
New Member
That is baloney just like every square inch of the Vatican. If we observe pagan traditions at Christmas, it is once a year. With your church, it is every waking moment.
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Christmas thoughts
- Thread starter Thinkingstuff
- Start date
Marcia
Active Member
A pentagram is widely used among Wiccans and Neopagans. They consider it their most sacred symbol. I realize it's just a geometric figure - that's not the point. The point is that symbols mean something depending on the culture and time.
A pentagram today in this culture is used by Pagans; therefore, I will not wear one. A cross is seen as Christian; I am fine with wearing it.
I am asked about symbols all the time and wrote a section in my book on them. So this is something I've not only thought about a lot, but I deal with it in my ministry and have to answer questions on it. The origins of symbols is pretty irrelevant; what matters is, do they send a message or represent something to a segment of the culture? If so, what?
Is the Nazi symbol meaningless? Would you be okay having a swastika on your shirt, hat, jacket? I doubt it. I also know the origins of this (in Hinduism and is found in other cultures as well, usually pertaining to the sun or the 4 directions). But the swastika does convey something and it's negative. So even though I know a swastika is just geometric lines, it is also a powerful symbol of evil, imo.
I first left the Baptist church and became an Anglican. I continued to study the catechism of the Catholic Church and read more testimonies of other Baptist who have become Catholic. I continued to search the scriptures and pray for guidance. I read and re-read various threads on this board in which you debated Carson Weber on the teachings of the Catholic Church. His answers had the ring of truth to them where yours, not so much. With all due respect, DHK, you had a lot to do with my decision to become a Catholic. I eventually found the fullness of truth in the Roman Catholic Church.
Your fangs are beginning to show.
I am a missionary, not an apologist, such as Carson Webber is. The RCC sent some of its top Catholic Apologists to our board to advertise and recruit, and to some extent they were successful. There are many others on this board that are much better at debate than I am.
But I know the truth of the Word of God. It is that truth that has set me free from the bondage of sin, and bondage of the heresies of the RCC. It is impossible for one to be fully enlightened about the gospel of Christ, and about the teachings of the Catholic Church, claim to believe both, and be a Christian. The two belief systems diametrically oppose each other. Christianity teaches salvation by grace through faith, and only through Christ.
The RCC, like all the other religions of the world, teaches a religion of works. The Bible condemns such religions. Salvation is not of works such as the RCC teaches. You can't be a Christian and believe what the RCC teaches, especially if you fully understand the gospel in the first place.
Some are most are not. Unless you stand with Martin Luther and hold to justification by faith alone then one is lost as the day is long. There is no reprieve, no purgatory, and no redemption. Hell is eternal and all who reject that core doctrine will spend eternity there.
saturneptune
New Member
Actually when it comes to stopping the deception and blindness this (to be nice) organization has thrust upon a lost world desperately in need of the Gospel, you are right, it is only the beginning. The only miracle of the Catholic Church is how someone thought up the warped system in 500 short years from Acts to its inception. What is more amazing is that it took another 1000 years for someone to publicly proclaim the totality of the evil the Catholic Church brings to mankind.
We show much more grace to you all than your group does to either Protestants or Baptists. I have had debates with some of the more learned officials in your church, and they readily admit, everyone of us are bound for hell. So take your persecution complex somewhere else.
I have to wonder, how many of the forefathers of our faith did your church murder before the Reformation? How many Protestants, who were only trying to bring the Catholic Church in line with the Bible, did your church murder after the Reformation?
How is it that you once studied the sound doctrine and truth of the Scripture and fell into a pit like this? I think you need to take a really close look at what you are doing to your life, in fact, your life itself, and return to a faith that has some similance of teaching sound doctrine. If you changed because you got mad at one individual, or a group of people, then don't you think that is kind of a high price to pay for at the very least stop growing as a Christian. As a Christian, God has better things for your life.
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
Amen, Marcia! :thumbs:
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
Yeah no doubt, God had His hands tied until Luther came along some 1500 years later and figured it ALL out...this is too funny...and I take it the REV believes everything else Luther taught as well...NOT...:laugh:Then I guess James the brother of our Lord was 'lost' then. (James 2:24)
In XC
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
There is a thread on worship on the Sabbath. We have a CoC person saying its essential to the faith not to have instruments in Church. We have a thread about Contimplative prayer. So there are many threads. Not that these aren't good discussion points but when we get heated we start calling each other heretics though as far as I know we all believe in the saving grace of Christ not by our works (self effort giving us our salvation) but by our faith (which is evidenced by works) in him. And the insult was the assumption that I was being ignorant. I took that personally.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Interesting. When "we" get heated, do "we" start calling other people idolators?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Not that I've noticed but calling someone a heretic and idolators is the same thing is it not?
Oh, I agree in principle with most of what you are saying, however "Sunday" is the day of the sun and that is the day we set aside for the worship of God. I don't know of many churches who use the expression "the first day of the week" as does the Bible.
Sometimes they use "the Lord's Day" which is better.
However I don't know any Baptists who worship the sun on Sunday.
If you honor these false gods by the use their names (days of the week) then it seems that you as well as others of us all have our pet pagan references.
BTW, what do you think of "Apollos" in the Bible whom Paul mentioned?
He was named after a false god by his parents (apparently) but he didn't change his name.
BTW is not some of the money in your wallet also idolatrous and honoring of false gods as the document portray the symbol of the all seeing eye of Isis-Horus (a false god-godess) on top of the Great Pyramid?
You cannot completely escape this world "for then must ye needs go out of the world".
However if your conscience offends you then you are obligated to obey it or face the consequences.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
KJV Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
HankD
. . . "I have had debates with some of the more learned officials in your church, and they readily admit, everyone of us are bound for hell."
I would sure like to know who these 'learned officials' of the Catholic Church are. Are you saying that they claim all protestants are bound for hell?
I would sure like to know who these 'learned officials' of the Catholic Church are. Are you saying that they claim all protestants are bound for hell?
Not to hijack the thread, but maybe it's the region, or simply the association. I have Catholic family members, and every one of them is saved. Most of the Catholic associations I've had have been with people who are clearly saved. And I've known hundreds. Neither have I known a single Catholic, including memebrs of the priesthood, that think most protestants are going to hell (although, it seems there are many Baptists who think that most Catholics are going to hell).
Bless your heart! Thank you!
Here is the thing folks. The theological differences between Rome and Protestants are, I think, very real and profound and they will not and should not go away until or unless one side recants. Most of you being Calvinist, think Rome should do the recanting. Catholics, no doubt, being Catholic, thinks protestants should. Calvinists and other Protestants believe that Rome has erred. Rome argues the same about you.
But as I have stated before, I have attended Catholic evangelization retreats where hundreds of people accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior and commit to living their lives for Him. This is happening in countless parishes around the world. I really don't think we are at odds here. Isn't our common mission to reach the lost of this world for Jesus?
Maybe you should go back and look for the "or" and the question mark.
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Then I guess James the brother of our Lord was 'lost' then. (James 2:24)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.