Drinking Question......

[sag38]

Aaron, did Paul not encourage a certain young pastor to drink a little wine for his stomach? He didn't tell him to do this because the wine would be bad for him but that it would do him some "good."

 

[webdog]

What is Judge Smails preferred beverage?

Great "username" :laugh:

Welcome to the BB!

 

[jaigner]

This whole issue gets so overblown. In the end, it is not about finding loopholes or phonying up Biblical interpretation. It's not about the ridiculous anecdotes we have heard from preachers (I like to call them "Adrian Rogers" stories) about how alcohol has ruined people or families. It's not about Christian witness or "appearance of evil."

This has, for most of Church history, been an issue of conscience. If your faith is weak and you do not feel you should drink, don't do it. If your faith is strong and you are not convicted otherwise, then that is okay.

Let's stop pretending this is some huge spiritual issue when it's really an issue about how our faith governs our daily life and work.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Argue all you want, but it does ruin your testimony when it causes the "lost", who equate sobriety with Christianity, to wrinkle up and frown. They don't know or care HOW MUCH you have consumed, they just see you doing what the "world" does without much thought or care. We are supposed to be seperate from the world.

My Pastor says he won't even have a "virgin" drink because it looks like the real thing with the cherries and umbrellas...etc. - It is a bad reflection on one's testimony to try and be like the "world".

Note: having been once married to an alcoholic who insisted he was a "one drink "person, I highly doubt that anyone can justify consumption of alcohol to me ever - saved or unsaved. Your judgment is impaired after one drink, people.

If you want the lost to want what we have, we must show them that we are happy without the world's temptations. Living in God's will means keeping our eyes on what HE would have us to do, and I know he doesn't want us to be stumbling blocks for our lost friends.

Amen and amen!

 

[saturneptune]

Not only that, using this is blatant cherry-picking.

No one yet has said what good comes from drinking wine.

After the six way bypass operation in January, the doctor told me to drink one glass a day, but do not. I do not know what the benefit of wine is in relation to artery disease.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

After the six way bypass operation in January, the doctor told me to drink one glass a day, but do not. I do not know what the benefit of wine is in relation to artery disease.

Would you take a prescription drug every day if he told you to? Wine is referred to as a medicine in Scripture. What is the difference...other than someone might see you buying it & assume the worst? Of course, if that were the case, the sin would be on them.

For years, my grandparents have had a mixed drink every night before bed; at the advice of their doctor. My grandfather died this year at the age of 94. My grandmother is 85 & still lives independently, drives her own car, & travels with friends. Hmmmm, perhaps we should accept what Scripture says & quit judging by personal preference, experience, & appearance. "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

 

[annsni]

After the six way bypass operation in January, the doctor told me to drink one glass a day, but do not. I do not know what the benefit of wine is in relation to artery disease.

He probably told you to drink one glass of RED wine a day, is that correct?

I'd listen to him if you are able to. There is great research on how good red wine is for health.

 

[freeatlast]

This has, for most of Church history, been an issue of conscience. If your faith is weak and you do not feel you should drink, don't do it. If your faith is strong and you are not convicted otherwise, then that is okay.

Let's stop pretending this is some huge spiritual issue when it's really an issue about how our faith governs our daily life and work.

How is it the weak of faith who do not drink? I would say that it is the carnal who drink and the strong in faith who do not. :thumbsup:

 

[michael-acts17:11]

How is it the weak of faith who do not drink? I would say that it is the carnal who drink and the strong in faith who do not. :thumbsup:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

Pro 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Luke 7:33-34 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

I could post many more verses, but I think the point is made. Those who are easily offended are spiritually weak. If you lived in the first century, you'd be judging those of us who would buy & eat meat that had been offered to idols.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Those who are easily offended are spiritually weak. If you lived in the first century, you'd be judging those of us who would buy & eat meat that had been offered to idols.

Today "offense" is often interpreted in U.S. Christianity as making someone angry or indignant. I just want to point out that those who are "offended" in the biblical sense are those who would be tempted to sin with alcoholic beverages because they are weak in faith/character.

 

[freeatlast]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

Pro 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Luke 7:33-34 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

I could post many more verses, but I think the point is made. Those who are easily offended are spiritually weak. If you lived in the first century, you'd be judging those of us who would buy & eat meat that had been offered to idols.

If you interpretation were correct then to be spiritual one must drink, but nothing could be further from the truth. Those passages do not in any way suggest weakness because of abstinence. Not giving into our passions is not a sign of weakness but strength and faith, totally opposite to what you would like to believe.

 

[Baptist Believer]

If you interpretation were correct then to be spiritual one must drink...

Not at all!

Just because the admonition, "Christians are forbidden to drink alcoholic beverages" is false, doesn't mean that "Christians are required to drink alcoholic beverages" is true.

You've started from a completely false premise.

Those passages do not in any way suggest weakness because of abstinence.

1.) Those who abstain are not weak.
2.) Those who partake of alcohol in moderation are not weak.
3.) Those who indulge in drunkenness are weak.
4.) Those who are "offended" are weak.

Not giving into our passions...

Hmm... You equate having an alcoholic beverage as "giving into passions." If you are equating "passions" to dependence or desire for intoxication, then it is obviously wrong. However, many Christians do not "give into passions" when they choose to partake. It is more like choosing a dessert from a menu at a restaurant. Not necessary, but enjoyable and good in moderation.

...is not a sign of weakness but strength and faith, totally opposite to what you would like to believe.

Those who don't pursue drunkenness, but live as an example of moderation for others, demonstrate strength and faith. Parents who model responsible alcohol use in the home teach their children the proper use of God's good gifts.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Hmmmm, perhaps we should accept what Scripture says & quit judging by personal preference, experience, & appearance. "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

Righteous judgment would coincide with the Word of God. The Word of God tells us not to look upon the wine when it is fermented.

So, in telling people that they err by drinking, even in moderation, is righteous judgment.

 

[annsni]

The Word of God tells us not to look upon the wine when it is fermented.

I'm sorry but this sentence is a clear lie. Why do you choose to change the Word of God?

 

[jaigner]

How is it the weak of faith who do not drink? I would say that it is the carnal who drink and the strong in faith who do not. :thumbsup:

Check out Romans. It's in there.

Those whose faith allows them to partake are strong in faith, not in substance, but in allowance for the activity. Those who are weak are those whose faith is weak, not in substance, but in allowance for the particular behavior.

And drinking isn't carnal. That is an asinine assertion.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I'm sorry but this sentence is a clear lie. Why do you choose to change the Word of God?

Proverbs 23:31 Look thou not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

This verse is clearly speaking of an alcoholic wine, for the next verse tells us at the last it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder

The verse clearly tells us not to look upon it when it is fermented, whether you want to accept it or not.

 

[annsni]

Proverbs 23:31 Look thou not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

This verse is clearly speaking of an alcoholic wine, for the next verse tells us at the last it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder

The verse clearly tells us not to look upon it when it is fermented, whether you want to accept it or not.

You said "The Word of God tells us not to look upon the wine when it is fermented." It does not say that at all. It says to not look upon the wine when it is red - and a bunch of other things.

Additionally, what is of vital importance is something you're missing - the entire context. Let me quote you in an earlier post to me:

You are taking those verses out of context to justify something that God frowns on.

Instead here, you are taking those verses out of context to make God say what He is not. There is a difference between drinking wine and being a drunkard.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You said "The Word of God tells us not to look upon the wine when it is fermented." It does not say that at all. It says to not look upon the wine when it is red - and a bunch of other things.

Additionally, what is of vital importance is something you're missing - the entire context. Let me quote you in an earlier post to me:



Instead here, you are taking those verses out of context to make God say what He is not. There is a difference between drinking wine and being a drunkard.

Apparently you are missing the fact that the wine that it is speaking of is indeed fermented wine. And God's Word says look not upon it.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

From Expositions of Holy Scripture:Old Testament:

In verses 31 and 32 weighty warning and dehortation follow, based in part on the preceding picture. The writer thinks that the only way of sure escape from the danger is to turn away even the eyes from the temptation. He is not contented with saying ‘taste not,’ but he goes the whole length of ‘look not’; and that because the very sparkle and colour may attract. ‘When it is red’ might perhaps better be rendered ‘when it reddens itself,’ suggesting the play of colour, as if put forth by the wine itself. The word rendered in the Authorised Version and Revised Version ‘colour’ is literally ‘eye,’ and probably means the beaded bubbles winking on the surface. ‘Moveth itself aright’ (Authorised Version) is not so near the meaning as ‘goeth down smoothly’ (Revised Version). The whole paints the attractiveness to sense of the wine-cup in colour, effervescence, and taste.

And then comes in, with startling abruptness, the end of all this fascination,—a serpent’s bite and a basilisk’s sting. The kind of poisonous snake meant in the last clause of verse 32 is doubtful, but certainly is one much more formidable than an adder. The serpent’s lithe gracefulness and painted skin hide a fatal poison; and so the attractive wine-cup is sure to ruin those who look on it. The evil consequences are pursued in more detail in what follows.

But here we must note two points. The advice given is to keep entirely away from the temptation. ‘Look not’ is safe policy in regard of many of the snares for young lives that abound in our modern society. It is not at all needful to ‘see life,’ or to know the secrets of wickedness, in order to be wise and good. ‘Simple concerning evil’ is a happier state than to have eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Many a young man has been ruined, body and soul, by a prurient curiosity to know what sort of life dissipated men and women led, or what sort of books they were against which he was warned, or what kind of a place a theatre was, and so on. Eyes are greedy, and there is a very quick telephone from them to the desires. ‘The lust of the eye’ soon fans the ‘lust of the flesh’ into a glow. There are plenty of depths of Satan gaping for young feet; and on the whole, it is safer and happier not to know them, and so not to have defiling memories, nor run the risk of falling into fatal sins. Whether the writer of this stern picture of a drunkard was a total abstainer or not, the spirit of his counsel not to ‘look on the wine’ is in full accord with that practice. It is very clear that if a man is a total abstainer, he can never be a drunkard. As much cannot be said of the moderate man.

 

[annsni]

Apparently you are missing the fact that the wine that it is speaking of is indeed fermented wine. And God's Word says look not upon it.

When are you to not look on it? When you are drunk. Read the passage.