why people hate the IRS

[targus]

Above are two statements from your last post. The first one asked for an example. The second one is your answer in your own words.

You misunderstood my post. I will restate it below.

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And your statments above are exactly what I mean when I say "zealot" rather than "rational".

You say the IRS are moral degenerates. Please provide an example from the OP.

You say I defend the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

You say that I see no problem with the IRS. Again please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

 

[rbell]

And your statments above are exactly what I mean when I say "zealot" rather than "rational".

IRS - moral degenerates. Please provide an example from the OP.

Me defending the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

I see no problem with the IRS. Again please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

Their "guilty until proven innocent" is problematic.

Like I said...it all depends on your case agent. A bad one means your in for trouble, abuse, and a huge bill (either to a tax attorney--since you can't represent yourself in tax court--or to the IRS itself).

 

[targus]

Their "guilty until proven innocent" is problematic.

Like I said...it all depends on your case agent. A bad one means your in for trouble, abuse, and a huge bill (either to a tax attorney--since you can't represent yourself in tax court--or to the IRS itself).

Income tax returns are prepared from records - you don't just make the number up.

If your tax return is questioned it is a matter of producing the records to support your return.

Would you want the IRS to simply take every tax return at face value?

Isn't it better to have a system of accountability so that tax cheaters have to pay just like the rest of us?

 

[rbell]

Income tax returns are prepared from records - you don't just make the number up.

If your tax return is questioned it is a matter of producing the records to support your return.

Would you want the IRS to simply take every tax return at face value?

Isn't it better to have a system of accountability so that tax cheaters have to pay just like the rest of us?

It's one thing to ask for documentation. But obviously, you've never been subject to a more invasive audit. For your sake, I hope you're not.

I repeat...when you face the teeth of the IRS, you are NOT innocent until proven guilty.

The rights you expect in criminal court are not necessarily extended to you in tax court.

I was audited once, years ago. It was the IRS's mistake. I was exonerated, but it still cost me over $3,000 in attorney fees. An eye-opening experience, it was.

 

[saturneptune]

You misunderstood my post. I will restate it below.

*****************************************
And your statments above are exactly what I mean when I say "zealot" rather than "rational".

You say the IRS are moral degenerates. Please provide an example from the OP.

You say I defend the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

You say that I see no problem with the IRS. Again please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

No, you said I see no problem with the IRS. Your posts have been reduced to name calling, although, really, the word zealot does not bother me at all. It is really time for you to try another thread.

 

[targus]

It's one thing to ask for documentation. But obviously, you've never been subject to a more invasive audit. For your sake, I hope you're not.

I repeat...when you face the teeth of the IRS, you are NOT innocent until proven guilty.

The rights you expect in criminal court are not necessarily extended to you in tax court.

I was audited once, years ago. It was the IRS's mistake. I was exonerated, but it still cost me over $3,000 in attorney fees. An eye-opening experience, it was.

Actually I am a CPA and have represented clients before the IRS for over twenty-five years.

Perhaps the difference between my experience with the IRS and yours is that I saw to it that my clients kept adequate records and that their returns were properly completed and filed.

Just a guess on my part.

 

[saturneptune]

Actually I am a CPA and have represented clients before the IRS for over twenty-five years.

Perhaps the difference between my experience with the IRS and yours is that I saw to it that my clients kept adequate records and that their returns were properly completed and filed.

Just a guess on my part.

Why is it necessary for so many people to be in the need of a third party to file taxes, so many that jobs can be maintained with this activity? There are not nearly that many cheating the government. Is the very fact this is necessary a sign of what we are talking about here?

 

[Johnv]

Why is it necessary for so many people to be in the need of a third party to file taxes, so many that jobs can be maintained with this activity?

Is there a problem with people doing so? I've always done my own (with the help of TurboTax), but my elderly mother has always used either a CPA or a tax specialist.

 

[sag38]

People shouldn't have to pay folks like you hundreds and thousands of their hard earned dollars to do their taxes for them. The whole system is a big fraud and rip off. Millions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere are wasted on accountants, tax preparers (I used to be one), etc. Why not simplify the system so that the average joe can do his or her taxes? As a preparer I spent hours and hours trying to learn the tax code and made good money preparing taxes but all along I thought that it was a travesty that people had to pay me to do what they should be able to do themself if only the tax code were not such a complicated mess. One shouldn't have to pay an enrolled agent big time bucks to represent them before the IRS.....Good gravy what a big fat mess!!!

 

[targus]

No, you said I see no problem with the IRS. Your posts have been reduced to name calling, although, really, the word zealot does not bother me at all. It is really time for you to try another thread.

I see, so after all your ranting, you are unable to show one example of your accusations.

And now wish to be dismissive instead.

 

[Salty]

Why is it necessary for so many people to be in the need of a third party to file taxes, so many that jobs can be maintained with this activity? There are not nearly that many cheating the government. Is the very fact this is necessary a sign of what we are talking about here?

To take advantage of all the so-called loopholes. When you get a chance, get a copy of the 1040 instructions, an see how many "schedules" and forms there are available to utilize to save on taxes.

Another-words, if you have a substantial income and a number of legal deductions, you may actually "make money" by spending some for a CPA.

For example, do you qualify for a home office deduction, gas mileage, union dues, work uniforms, ect, ect, ect.... Only your CPA knows for sure:type:

Salty

ps, and my church pays part of my salary as housing allowance, therefore, I do not have to pay income tax on it.

 

[targus]

Why is it necessary for so many people to be in the need of a third party to file taxes, so many that jobs can be maintained with this activity? There are not nearly that many cheating the government. Is the very fact this is necessary a sign of what we are talking about here?

So people have more complicated returns than others do.

Some people are self employed or have investment properties or are investors in partnerships or whatever.

A person who has a relatively simple return should not have to hire anyone to do their return unless they so choose.

But wait... rather than provide examples of your accusations you dismissed me.

I guess that you changed your mind.

So how about some examples...

You say the IRS are moral degenerates. Please provide an example from the OP.

You say I defend the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

You say that I see no problem with the IRS. Again please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

 

[targus]

Just wondering...

Isn't keeping adequate financial records and filing acurate and complete tax returns a Biblical concept?

Rendering unto Ceasar...

Being a good steward...

You know, that sort of thing.

 

[saturneptune]

To take advantage of all the so-called loopholes. When you get a chance, get a copy of the 1040 instructions, an see how many "schedules" and forms there are available to utilize to save on taxes.

Another-words, if you have a substantial income and a number of legal deductions, you may actually "make money" by spending some for a CPA.

For example, do you qualify for a home office deduction, gas mileage, union dues, work uniforms, ect, ect, ect.... Only your CPA knows for sure:type:

Salty

ps, and my church pays part of my salary as housing allowance, therefore, I do not have to pay income tax on it.

H and R Block has always claimed that their fees are more than made up by what you missed by not going to them. I have had some years that got more complicated than the 1040. For example, travel for your job when not reimbursed with mileage and per diem is one example. Another example is the severe ice storm last January and casualty losses. Since I retired in October, the various annuities and IRA distributions will be another factor.

In the past, I filled out the forms for the HOPE credit when the kids were in college. That was actually a very good tax credit.

One of the strangest things locally here I never understood is the tax treatment of your employer matched 401K, called the TSP in the federal government. In a way it is kind of irritating. On the federal and state level, the W-2 reflects your income minus the 401k. However, city income tax here has always been based on the whole amount, including health premiums.

I do not know if I have missed major amounts of savings over the years, especially in the area of capital gains and schedule D. I know this year besides the casualty losses on schedule A, the new deduction for sales taxes on a new car purchase is going to help. We just had all of our windows changed from the old storm windows to the double pain last year. Too bad, that has to have been done in 2009 to count.

 

[Salty]

H and R Block has always claimed that their fees are more than made up by what you missed by not going to them. I have had some years that got more complicated than the 1040. For example, travel for your job when not reimbursed with mileage and per diem is one example. Another example is the severe ice storm last January and casualty losses. Since I retired in October, the various annuities and IRA distributions will be another factor.

In the past, I filled out the forms for the HOPE credit when the kids were in college. That was actually a very good tax credit.

One of the strangest things locally here I never understood is the tax treatment of your employer matched 401K, called the TSP in the federal government. In a way it is kind of irritating. On the federal and state level, the W-2 reflects your income minus the 401k. However, city income tax here has always been based on the whole amount, including health premiums.

I do not know if I have missed major amounts of savings over the years, especially in the area of capital gains and schedule D. I know this year besides the casualty losses on schedule A, the new deduction sales taxes on a new car purchase is going to help. We just had all of our windows changed from the old storm windows to the double pain last year. Too bad, that has to have been done in 2009 to count.

Thats the reason to do away with personal income tax ( and deductions) and go to a simple extremely low % electronic tax!

 

[targus]

H and R Block has always claimed that their fees are more than made up by what you missed by not going to them. I have had some years that got more complicated than the 1040. For example, travel for your job when not reimbursed with mileage and per diem is one example. Another example is the severe ice storm last January and casualty losses. Since I retired in October, the various annuities and IRA distributions will be another factor.

In the past, I filled out the forms for the HOPE credit when the kids were in college. That was actually a very good tax credit.

One of the strangest things locally here I never understood is the tax treatment of your employer matched 401K, called the TSP in the federal government. In a way it is kind of irritating. On the federal and state level, the W-2 reflects your income minus the 401k. However, city income tax here has always been based on the whole amount, including health premiums.

I do not know if I have missed major amounts of savings over the years, especially in the area of capital gains and schedule D. I know this year besides the casualty losses on schedule A, the new deduction for sales taxes on a new car purchase is going to help. We just had all of our windows changed from the old storm windows to the double pain last year. Too bad, that has to have been done in 2009 to count.

Are there two people using your baptistboard screen name?

Up to this point you have been ranting about "it necessary for so many people to be in the need of a third party to file taxes".

Now you tell us all about the tax forms that you have completed all by yourself.

Are you bragging or admitting that completing tax returns is not all that you have been trying to make it out to be?

 

[saturneptune]

Thats the reason to do away with personal income tax ( and deductions) and go to a simple extremely low % electronic tax!

Would you base it on income or consumption? If income, would you start taxing from a zero amount? If consumption, would you exclude things like food, housing etc.?

 

[Bob Alkire]

Income tax returns are prepared from records - you don't just make the number up.

If your tax return is questioned it is a matter of producing the records to support your return.

Would you want the IRS to simply take every tax return at face value?

Isn't it better to have a system of accountability so that tax cheaters have to pay just like the rest of us?

targus, not to give you a hard time, but we are seeing this from different views.

Have you ever been to a IRS audit? I have, about 5 times. Four of the five times my appointment was on a Friday at 10AM. Each time they had to leave for the weekend, at about 11 AM, to to personal deals and call me back on Monday.

To get into town on(each time I ask for a Monday appointment, but no such thing) Friday I had to start getting runs back to Florida on Monday and get back on Thursday, so I could load my files up and take them down to them. Each time I left, I felt like they were over paid, under worked, wasted my time and their attitude caused me to dislike the IRS more and more.

I believe it was in the mid 80's 60 minutes or 20/20 did a deal on their gestapo like actions. How much power they had.

I'm sure they have many nice folks working for them, but I don't think I ever met one. Then I got a tax lawyer and he was about as bad and rude as they were and I was out of there in about a half an hour.

But I'm in trucking and that is a field that the IRS acts as if we are all crooks, so we get checked often. With that said, I haven't been checked in 10 to 15 years now.

 

[targus]

targus, not to give you a hard time, but we are seeing this from different views.

Have you ever been to a IRS audit?

Yes, I have participated in several IRS audits. I am a CPA.

 

[Salty]

Would you base it on income or consumption? If income, would you start taxing from a zero amount? If consumption, would you exclude things like food, housing etc.?

So as not to hijack this thread any further, I have started a new thread on the Automatic Tax

Salty