As someone who started to lean that way years ago, I know of one who sent me an email stating the arguments I presented (in regards to understanding election as being linear) changed their thinking, and they left the reformed doctrine.
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Election: A Glorious Truth for all Christians
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webbie: I noticed you don't post all that much as you did anymore. Job ?
Yes. And we know we are accountable because God has made it plain through His word, not because we were zapped with faith first.
Yes, that was my point. There was a question earlier in this thread about whether repentance preceded belief. John's preaching makes it clear that repentance is indeed needed before one is willing to listen to the gospel of salvation. That is what John was doing. He was preparing the Jews to be ready to hear the good news.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
He was converted from truth to errortongue3
Why would Arminians be disciplined? Afterall, we only believe what God has predestined we believe. :smilewinkgrin:
lol !! you got me on that one....:smilewinkgrin:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
I debated in High School and College and we were trained to be able to debate both sides of an argument. After being a Calvinist for over 10 years through college and seminary I was challenged to support the the other side of the debate...the Arminian side. Up to that point in my life the only real Arminian exposure I had were some of the pastors and professors I happened to know. None of them were very knowledgeable of the subject and could only keep quoting John 3:16 while overemphasizing the word "WHOSOEVER," as if that should end the discussion. This only convinced me that what I had learned from Calvinistic dogma must be correct.
It was only when I forced myself to objectively look at the scholarly side of Arminianism that I was able to first UNDERSTAND why smart well meaning Christians rejected the Calvinistic interpretation of such passages as Romans 9 and Ephesians 1. Once I fully understood the Arminian interpretations, I could objectively evaluate it and see if I believed it was the true intent of the authors.
To make a much longer process short, the one doctrine that really caused me to begin to question my Calvinistic interpretations was the biblical teaching on Judicial Hardening. Understanding this one doctrine within its historical context is ESSENTIAL to proper interpretation of these difficult matters. I'll stop there for now, but if someone wants to go deeper I'd be obliged.
Skan,
I respect your position on Arminianism and yourself as a fellow child of God, but I think it will be better if you simply started a new thread on why you converted to Arminianism as discussing that here will hijack this thread which is about Election.
Just FWIW.
I respect your position on Arminianism and yourself as a fellow child of God, but I think it will be better if you simply started a new thread on why you converted to Arminianism as discussing that here will hijack this thread which is about Election.
Just FWIW.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amy
Amy.G
I will ask you the same question that I have been trying to get Winman to answer. Just why did you repent and believe the Gospel when so many others turn away in unbelief, still lost?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Winman
An interesting post. Perhaps the answer to my question: What is it about you as a person that caused you to accept the offer of Salvation in Jesus Christ while others reject that Salvation? was hidden in there somewhere but I did not find it. Could you either point it out to me or perhaps present a one or two sentence answer? It should not be that difficult considering all that you have posted defending your position!
An interesting post. Perhaps the answer to my question: What is it about you as a person that caused you to accept the offer of Salvation in Jesus Christ while others reject that Salvation? was hidden in there somewhere but I did not find it. Could you either point it out to me or perhaps present a one or two sentence answer? It should not be that difficult considering all that you have posted defending your position!
Is it so hard to understand? :jesus: Turn or Burn!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Turn to what? How can you turn if you don't believe?
Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. You see light and have to choose to want more......or run back to the darkness. But "WARNING" God might not allow you to have another glimps!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I believe that faith and repentance are opposite sides of the same coin but repentance always comes up first.
Actually God will bring to salvation all those He chose in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.
John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 10: 27-30
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29.My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.
John 17:24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
God see the heart if a person is honest and sincere and wants more light"truth".....ie God will enable Him to see Jesus as the Christ. The other disiples "that left" were not given more understanding because they were not serious. The parable of the talents explains this principal about being faithfull with what God gives you. God also can give people over who reject the little truth they get and have not properly responded. All men have enough truth by default "Creation,Conscience " to condemn him"or her",but not enough to save them.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The Parable of the Sower shows the response of the four individuals to the Gospel Call. Three fell away because they were not among God's Chosen Ones. However, one was among the Chosen Ones, the elect, for him the Gospel Call became the Effectual Call and he persevered in the Faith.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Follow the crowd
John 6:35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
It is so easy to follow the crowd and when trials and tribulations come will fall away. Those who listen and learn from the Father will come to Jesus and they are the children of God for the word says also
Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.
God has chosen them in Christ not apart from Him, It is the body of Jesus that God has chosen before the foundation of the world not you apart from Him. You are pretty high on yourself to believe God chose you apart from Christ. You have no hope without Jesus.
John 6:35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
It is so easy to follow the crowd and when trials and tribulations come will fall away. Those who listen and learn from the Father will come to Jesus and they are the children of God for the word says also
Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.
God has chosen them in Christ not apart from Him, It is the body of Jesus that God has chosen before the foundation of the world not you apart from Him. You are pretty high on yourself to believe God chose you apart from Christ. You have no hope without Jesus.
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Amen! I have said this a dozen times. We are not chosen apart from Christ. Until you put your faith in Him, you are apart from Him.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Who on this forum has said that anyone is chosen apart from Jesus Christ? The passage I most often use in talking about election is Ephesians 1:3-6
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
If you can't identify those who have said we are chosen by God other than in Jesus Christ then you owe everyone an apology for telling a lie about them.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Who on this forum has said that anyone is chosen apart from Jesus Christ? The passage I most often use in talking about election is Ephesians 1:3-6.
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Amy.G
It pains me to say this to you but if you can't identify those who have said we are chosen by God other than in Jesus Christ then you owe everyone an apology because you have implied something about them that is untrue.
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