Your View On The Roman Catholics

[Baptist4life]

....the RCC faith is not christian, nor do they teach biblical salvation.....

Then, explain to me how you think a person who is a member of, and following the RCC, is a Christian? That makes no sense.

This is my position as well and I think a reasonable one. But you won't convince those that feel the need to declare that they know with absolute certainty that every single individual catholic person is bound for hell without exception.

No one said that. However, I said if someone is in the RCC and gets saved, I do not believe they will stay in the RCC. You guys seem to think it's just another "denomination"! To me, it's just like someone who is a Jehovah's Witness, or a Mormon, getting saved and then staying in the the JW's or Mormon church and trying to tell everyone that it's a Christian denomination.

 

[Steven2006]

Then, explain to me how you think a person who is a member of, and following the RCC, is a Christian? That makes no sense.



No one said that. However, I said if someone is in the RCC and gets saved, I do not believe they will stay in the RCC. You guys seem to think it's just another "denomination"! To me, it's just like someone who is a Jehovah's Witness, or a Mormon, getting saved and then staying in the the JW's or Mormon church and trying to tell everyone that it's a Christian denomination.

Your are saying exactly that, because you qualify it by stating any person that is saved would always leave without exception, so in other words you are saying that you believe without exception that there are no individuals that are saved and are still catholic.

As far as calling it just another Christian denomination, just go back and read Donna's post that I just agreed with, and tell me how any reasonable person could possibly read that and come to that conclusion.

 

[Baptist4life]

...............so in other words you are saying that you believe without exception that there are no individuals that are saved and are still catholic.

Yes. I do.


If you, yourself don't think the RCC is a Christian denomination, why would a truly saved, born again, Holy Spirit led, Christian stay in it?

 

[Johnv]

Yes. I do.

That is factually incorrect, as demonstrated by the fact that many persons here are associated, acquainted, or friends with practicing Roman Catholics who are saved. There are also several persons here on this bbs who are practicing Catholics, whose salvation is not in question.

 

[Steven2006]

Yes. I do.


I you yourself don't think the RCC is a Christian denomination, why would a truly saved, born again, Holy Spirit led, Christian stay in it?

Earlier in this thread I posted of one such example, and you never responded to it. I'll re post it again.

One of my best friends mom growing up was a dear woman that IMO was saved. Her husband was always a devout catholic, and she although she was not raised a catholic, joined because of him. Although obviously not the wisest and most biblical thing to do (marrying a catholic), she chose to follow her husbands leadership. I don't know about the rest of the family, but I always thought she was saved. Am I to just believe she couldn't possible be for the sole reason because as you say she stayed in the catholic church with her husband and family?

 

[thomas15]

This thread is being discussed on catholic answers.

I'm finding myself in general agreement with the OP and his followups. A person is a Christian if they confess their sin and place their faith and trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sin. There are no doubt some catholics who meet this requirement and some Baptist who do not. However, a person who belongs to the modern roman catholic church will not make this confession based on anything they learn or hear in church.

I as others have, have many family members in the RCC. The main thing that you need to know about the RCC is that they believe that the church was given the power to decide the perameters of the faith and that only those who are members of that church have the true faith. Evangelicals believe that salvation is a gift, given to those who exercise simple faith, catholics believe that salvation is the reward for following a complex list of rules and ritual.

While I don't consider myself a strict 5 pointer, I do believe that man is totally depraved and that at some point God put a desire in my heart to go out, purchase a Bible and study it, apply it and He then brought people into my life to help when I needed it. Not because of anything I did, it was all 100% God's doing.

Catholics on the other hand give themselves personally much of the credit for their salvation which basically boils down to doing what you are told and then collecting the reward. 90% of what the modern catholic believes or does in practice is at best not in the Bible or in some cases forbidden behavior or practice.

 

[Baptist4life]

One of my best friends mom growing up was a dear woman that IMO was saved. Her husband was always a devout catholic, and she although she was not raised a catholic, joined because of him. Although obviously not the wisest and most biblical thing to do (marrying a catholic), she chose to follow her husbands leadership. I don't know about the rest of the family, but I always thought she was saved. Am I to just believe she couldn't possible be for the sole reason because as you say she stayed in the catholic church with her husband and family?

I believe that a person who is truly saved WILL NOT follow the teachings of the RCC, nor participate in it's "Mass", partaking of the "Eucharist", etc.


My mother-in-law was probably the sweetest, kindest, most loving, giving woman I have ever met, outside of my own mother. When you look to define what a "christian" should "look" like, she would have been an outstanding example. I loved her dearly, and I miss her terribly. I mean that. However, she was also a devout RC, and I could not tell you, as much as it grieves me, that she was saved, because to her dying day, she trusted in the RCC for her salvation instead of Christ.

 

[Johnv]

Sorry for your loss. It doesn't change the fact that you're 100% wrong.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I believe that a person who is truly saved WILL NOT follow the teachings of the RCC, nor participate in it's "Mass", partaking of the "Eucharist", etc.


My mother-in-law was probably the sweetest, kindest, most loving, giving woman I have ever met, outside of my own mother. When you look to define what a "christian" should "look" like, she would have been an outstanding example. I loved her dearly, and I miss her terribly. I mean that. However, she was also a devout RC, and I could not tell you, as much as it grieves me, that she was saved, because to her dying day, she trusted in the RCC for her salvation instead of Christ.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

We do need to share the Gospel with Roman Catholics if they will listen. People are telling Bruce on this thread to compromise with the papacy for the love of his wife.

But I say to Bruce, love God more than your wife and children and friends. Continue to teach your children the Holy Scriptures, even if your wife tries to disuade the children from your teaching by telling them that they are being brainwashed by Daddy.

Rebuke your wife lovingly and patiently for her devotion to idols and Antichrist. Do not be angry with her. She is an enemy of Christ and so yoru enemy...so love your enemy and do good to her, even if she says she hates fundamental bible-believers.

Persever my brother!

 

[Baptist4life]

Sorry for your loss. It doesn't change the fact that you're 100% wrong.

Do you believe the following statement?


If you follow the teachings of, and believe the catechism of, the Roman Catholic Church, you are a Christian Yes or no?


If you believe that you can be a fully practicing RC, and still be saved, then YOU are the one who is 100% wrong, and your argument is not with me, it's with God.

 

[Steven2006]

I believe that a person who is truly saved WILL NOT follow the teachings of the RCC, nor participate in it's "Mass", partaking of the "Eucharist", etc.


My mother-in-law was probably the sweetest, kindest, most loving, giving woman I have ever met, outside of my own mother. When you look to define what a "christian" should "look" like, she would have been an outstanding example. I loved her dearly, and I miss her terribly. I mean that. However, she was also a devout RC, and I could not tell you, as much as it grieves me, that she was saved, because to her dying day, she trusted in the RCC for her salvation instead of Christ.

You hit on the key of the matter. Where is the person placing their trust. In the example I gave, unlike your mother-in-law I think she trusts in Jesus not the RCC. You see you can't view everyone through the lens of your in-laws, which you seem to do. You are basing everything on your first hand experience without leaving open the option that there could be other experiences with different people.

 

[Baptist4life]

Then I'll ask you the same question.


If you follow the teachings of, and believe the catechism of, the Roman Catholic Church, you are a Christian. Yes or no?



The Holy Spirit indwells all true believers. I can tell you because of family, I've been to many RC services, and the last time I went I was so convicted by the Holy Spirit by what they were doing and saying during a "mass" that I could not sit there any longer. I got up and walked out because they were making a mockery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit will let a true born again Christian stay in the RCC.


We can discuss this for another 50 pages and no one will convince me, EVER, that the RCC is a Christian church, and that followers of the RCC are Christians! To come on here and proclaim RC's as Christians shows immense Biblical ignorance, IMHO.

 

[Steven2006]

What you fail to understand is not everyone is as devout as your in-laws are. You fail to consider that someone could be very weak and immature in their faith and sadly not move past that.

I personally believe most sincere Christian would regularly pray, regularly attend a church, and regularly read their bibles. Sadly though there are some that rarely do these things, they never grow, never mature and stay immature in their faith for years. While it may raise some red flags for self examination on their parts, I don't think anyone would declare them absolutely to not be Christians. Well just like these immature Christians I believe there could also be immature Christians that for a variety of personal reasons might stay a catholic. You seem to always bring the argument around to a catholic that is devout and strong in beliefs of the RCC. Your are not considering any other circumstances. It is probably understandable, but I think you only see your wife's family whenever the subject of a catholic comes up.

 

[Amy.G]

Whatever happened to contending for the faith?

Ga*1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga*1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


I have never read where Paul or the apostles instructed the church to pray to Mary, or believe the bread and wine became the literal body of Christ, or placed anyone in the position of Pope, or collected money (indulgences) to pay the priests for praying people out of purgatory, or purgatory for that matter.

All these things, plus many, many others done by the Catholic church are no question a "different gospel" that was NOT received from the apostles.

No wonder the church is in such bad shape these days. Is there anyone really brave enough to actually contend for the faith?

 

[Steven2006]

Whatever happened to contending for the faith?

Ga*1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga*1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


I have never read where Paul or the apostles instructed the church to pray to Mary, or believe the bread and wine became the literal body of Christ, or placed anyone in the position of Pope, or collected money (indulgences) to pay the priests for praying people out of purgatory, or purgatory for that matter.

All these things, plus many, many others done by the Catholic church are no question a "different gospel" that was NOT received from the apostles.

No wonder the church is in such bad shape these days.

I haven't seen anyone defending the practices of the RCC. My only point in this entire thread is that I think it is wrong to declare and judge ever single catholic as going to hell. I think there can be some exceptions in spite of the beliefs of the RCC.

 

[Amy.G]

I haven't seen anyone defending the practices of the RCC. My only point in this entire thread is that I think it is wrong to declare and judge ever single catholic as going to hell. I think there can be some exceptions in spite of the beliefs of the RCC.

If you believe that a person can be saved by a different gospel than what Paul preached, then you are most definitely defending the practices of the RCC.

 

[Baptist4life]

God bless you Amy! and Thank You! I felt like I was all alone on this! :thumbs:

 

[Steven2006]

If you believe that a person can be saved by a different gospel than what Paul preached, then you are most definitely defending the practices of the RCC.

I don't believe that, and you are both putting word in my mouth and changing the debate.

 

[Baptist4life]

Steven.........


what is your opinion on this statement I made?

I do not believe that the Holy Spirit will let a true born again Christian stay in the RCC.

 

[Amy.G]

God bless you Amy! and Thank You! I felt like I was all alone on this! :thumbs:

You're not alone. The practices of the RCC cannot be defended. It is a different gospel than that of Paul and I'm willing to be :tonofbricks: for proclaiming it.