Boasting

[OldRegular]

On the "why are you a calvinist thread", a common theme is the "struggle" (exact word fought) to accept the "truth" of TULIP, and then finally succumbing to it. Why is biblical truth hard for a spirit filled believer to accept? Shouldn't the Spirit within welcome immutable truth with open arms as we have spiritual life? I have changed my outlook on some doctrine over the years...but it was never with a struggle...it almost came as an excitement.

Perhaps they are like you! It didn't fit their erroneous concept of the nature of GOD. It is the nature of man that he likes to have the final say, even regenerate man as the discussions on this Forum show. I would simply advise all those who believe as Skandelon apparently does to let GOD be GOD!

Quote from Scandelon at http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63939

“I must say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can boast of our salvation because of the role we claim to play.” [My emphasis]

 

[Martin]

Jesus was speaking to a group of hardened Jews in John 6, right? Why exactly do you think they couldn't come to him at that time, while the Jewish apostles could?

==We have been over this before and I don't plan on re-hasing this old debate with you. If you want to know how I will respond to your claim you can go back and reference our debate from a few weeks ago. I have no intention on going round and round with you on this issue again. At least not at this time.

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus was speaking to a group of hardened Jews in John 6, right? Why exactly do you think they couldn't come to him at that time, while the Jewish apostles could?

We can pick Calvin's answer:
Because they were born non-elect reprobates destined to hell and thus unable to willingly come to Christ.

or we can pick the scripture's answer:
Lord, who has believed our message? And who has the arm of the Lord been revealed to? 39 This is why they were unable to believe, because Isaiah also said: 40 He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they would not see with their eyes or understand with their hearts, and be converted, and I would heal them. -John 12:38-41

Jesus Christ Himself gives the answer. :thumbs::thumbs:

John 6:60-69
60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61. When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Skandelon]

Perhaps they are like you! It didn't fit their erroneous concept of the nature of GOD. It is the nature of man that he likes to have the final say, even regenerate man as the discussions on this Forum show. I would simply advise all those who believe as Skandelon apparently does to let GOD be GOD!

Quote from Scandelon at http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63939

“I must say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can boast of our salvation because of the role we claim to play.” [My emphasis]

You know its interesting because the ONLY role we CLAIM to play is the role that scripture claims we play. I think its interesting how all I have to do is quote directly from the text to answer this charge and not one of you Calvinists have even attempted to address it: Let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth ; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD. -- Jeremiah 9:24

You can accuse me of boasting right along side Jeremiah, that "I understand and know the Lord." Why? Because HE made himself evident and only those who CHOOSE not to acknowledge what is clearly seen and made known to us will become defiled and given over to their lusts. That is scripture Old Regular whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[Skandelon]

Jesus Christ Himself gives the answer. :thumbs::thumbs:

John 6:60-69
60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61. When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

AMEN! Thanks for supporting my point. I knew you would come around. :thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

You know its interesting because the ONLY role we CLAIM to play is the role that scripture claims we play.

Yes, but you refuse to give credit where credit is due; to GOD not Scandelon! But you are not alone. As I said earlier:

It is the nature of man that he likes to have the final say, even regenerate man as the discussions on this Forum show.

 

[Skandelon]

Yes, but you refuse to give credit where credit is due; to GOD not Scandelon! But you are not alone. As I said earlier:

Sooooo untrue. I wrote a thread on this very accusation not long ago. Just because a gift is not irresistibly applied doesn't make the recipient any less grateful for getting it. I give credit to the same people the bible gives credit to. Paul said, "Abraham believe and it was credit to HIM as righteousness." Can you say that about anyone?

But, what does he have that he did not receive? Thus, I give God the credit for revealing to him the truth. Faith comes by hearing and God is the one who revealed the truth, thus he still gets the glory!

 

[Skandelon]

==We have been over this before and I don't plan on re-hasing this old debate with you. If you want to know how I will respond to your claim you can go back and reference our debate from a few weeks ago. I have no intention on going round and round with you on this issue again. At least not at this time.

I just went back and found that discussion and realized that I never saw your final post. I replied to it here.

 

[OldRegular]

On the "why are you a calvinist thread", a common theme is the "struggle" (exact word fought) to accept the "truth" of TULIP, and then finally succumbing to it. Why is biblical truth hard for a spirit filled believer to accept? Shouldn't the Spirit within welcome immutable truth with open arms as we have spiritual life? I have changed my outlook on some doctrine over the years...but it was never with a struggle...it almost came as an excitement.

Perhaps they are like you! It didn't fit their erroneous concept of the nature of GOD. It is the nature of man that he likes to have the final say, even regenerate man as the discussions on this Forum show. I would simply advise all those who believe as Skandelon apparently does to let GOD be GOD!

Quote from Scandelon at http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63939

“I must say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can boast of our salvation because of the role we claim to play.” [My Emphasis]

 

[Winman]

Everyone who read Winman's accusation about John MacArthur (etc) should know that he is not correct. I took the time to look up the quote he used from MacArthur. It is from a sermon of MacArthur's, one I actually have on tape, on the doctrine of election. Winman pulled out a very short quote and he took that quote out of context. This is of course very easy to do since it is a long sermon (though short by MacArthur's standards). I will quote one line in MacArthur's sermon that directly contradicts Winman's claims then I will provide a link to the actual text of the sermon (something Winman did not do, and for good reason). Anyone who is familiar with the ministry and teaching of John MacArthur, and James White, should of course already understand that Winman's post misrepresents the teaching of Calvinism. We, Calvinists, believe that every part of salvation is done through Christ. There is no salvation outside of Christ. His death, burial, and resurrection are essential to election and salvation.

From the sermon:
"Every aspect of salvation is the work of God but you will notice here that that work is mediated through Christ. In verse 4 it says it is in Him, meaning Christ. In verse 5 it says it is through Jesus Christ. In verse 6 it says it is in the beloved one, meaning Christ. In verse 7, in Him, meaning Christ. In verse 9, purposed in Him, meaning Christ. In verses 10 and 11, in Him referring to Christ. In verse 12, in Christ. In verse 13, twice in Him, again referring to Christ. Our salvation is solely and only and wholly the work of God but through Christ it is wrought...And what has He done? Number one, He chose us...look at verse 4...just as He chose us in Him, meaning Christ, before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him. He chose us to be made holy in Christ. He chose us to become blameless in Christ. He chose us before the foundation of the world." -John MacArthur

The actual sermon (HERE).

This is a very good example of why I stress to my students the need to pay careful and close attention to context. Mainly when it is a controversial issue and someone is being quoted. We should always try, but we are not always able, to check these type of quotes. If anyone here other than myself has/will check Winman's quote, they will easily see that his claim is not based in fact.

That was not my source. I got those quotes here, and you will see I did not misrepresent them.

http://www.examiningcalvinism.com/ArminianElection.html

If they misrepresented John MacArthur shame on them, but I would never resort to that. You would not know it to look at me today, but I was quite the athlete as a young man and played in several organized sports. My father was a successful coach who won two state championships in baseball (12-15 year olds). I was brought up to play fair and always did, in fact one year I received a trophy for sportsmanship. Yes, that is a brag, but it is the truth. I never needed to cheat to win and I don't need to do that now.

Perhaps I should be more careful and check the quotes I post, that's good advice for us all. But I would never intentionally misrepresent anyone.

 

[pinoybaptist]

And who boasted in their "own" righteousness. You can't escape the fact that you believe you were benevolent enough to "accept" Christ.

pssst. I think Skandelon and Winman were bit by vampires.
They can't seem to see themselves in the mirror.

 

[Martin]

That was not my source. I got those quotes here, and you will see I did not misrepresent them.

==It seems like you were mislead by people who did not do their homework. I linked to the sermon and, as you should be able to see, John MacArthur does not believe or teach what they claimed. We should always verify sources when possible.

Perhaps I should be more careful and check the quotes I post, that's good advice for us all. But I would never intentionally misrepresent anyone.

==It happens to all of us. I've gotten stung more than a few times trusting secondary sources. One could say that I was warned but still had to learn the lesson the hard way. Since then I try to check sources when possible.

I am really glad this is straightened out.

 

[Skandelon]

Perhaps they are like you! It didn't fit their erroneous concept of the nature of GOD. It is the nature of man that he likes to have the final say, even regenerate man as the discussions on this Forum show. I would simply advise all those who believe as Skandelon apparently does to let GOD be GOD!

Quote from Scandelon at http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63939

“I must say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can boast of our salvation because of the role we claim to play.” [My emphasis]

We "claim to play" the same role that scripture says we must play: As Jesus said, "he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

It doesn't say, "he that God humbles shall be exalted." If you think one can claim glory for humbling himself then your problem is with Jesus, not me.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Let him who boasts boast of this, that he was smart enough to defend his soteriological views on an online forum.

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[quantumfaith]

I must say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can boast of our salvation because of the role we claim to play.

Calvinists attempt to take the pious road of self abasement insisting that even our broken confession of needing God's offer of forgiveness and reconciliation is somehow worthy of boasting and a lessening of God's glory.

First, Paul's teaching regarding boasting was ALWAYS directed toward prideful Pharisees who insisted they were the elect ones of God. Paul always contrasted the law with faith and never once hinted that a man's faith was boast worthy. Quite the opposite, Paul said, "Abraham believed and it was CREDITED to his account has righteousness." And you only need to read Hebrews 11 to see that the biblical author had no problem giving honor to this "great cloud of witnesses." Why is okay for scripture to honer and credit men for faith if indeed they have nothing to do with it?

Is boasting in our understanding and knowledge of God really as bad as Calvinists make it appear?

Let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth ; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD. -- Jeremiah 9:24

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

And who boasted in their "own" righteousness. You can't escape the fact that you believe you were benevolent enough to "accept" Christ.

No, I think he was "broken" enough to accept Christ. As we all should be.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, I think he was "broken" enough to accept Christ. As we all should be.

Well only God has the power to break you because you would not do it of your own accord.

 

[Skandelon]

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth ; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD. -- Jeremiah 9:24

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth ; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD. -- Jeremiah 9:24

Amen. I have no boast but of the Lord. Soli Deo Gloria. :godisgood:

 

[Skandelon]

Well only God has the power to break you because you would not do it of your own accord.

Scripture says, "he that humbleth himself shall be exalted," not "he that God humbles shall be exalted." The law and HS brings conviction to the world, so in that manner the Lord's chosen means do "break" or humble us, but not effectually so, as the passage says, one must "humble himself."