Whosoever Will

[olegig]

Peoples use of the statement: "My God would not do this or My God would not do that is nonsensical and condesending."

There is only one GOD. He is your GOD whether you acknowledge it or not. He is your GOD whether you have a saving relationship with HIM or not.

I agree with your words above in red. Someday all will take a knee and realize that fact. Phil 2:10
But that is why I was a bit taken back when you did it yourself when you said:
I can’t speak for your god.

 

[David Michael Harris]

It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. ( negative sense that is )

Have mercy Lord.

 

[kyredneck]

..quiet frankly I have no idea what those terms mean.......

Quiet frankly, I find that hard to swallow.

At some point your charade will become an insult to EVERYONES' intelligence, Cal & Arm...........

 

[David Michael Harris]

OldRegular,



Why would the Lord make a statement like the one above if it not possible to blot someone's name from the Book?

That has always fascinated me. Never got a good answer on it.

 

[kyredneck]

....I don't know what you mean by "charade"..

By charade I mean feigned ignorance on your part.

On another thread you said:

......after several years on the old MS boards, I have pretty thick skin......

I said:

Really, if you're a free willer/synergist/arminian just admit it. There's no need to carry on a charade.

You said:

I am but a simple man and quiet frankly I have no idea what those terms mean......

After several years on the old MS boards where you acquired a thick skin, you were never exposed to or acquired a knowledge of those terms, free willer, or synergist, or arminian?

Please don't insult our intelligence.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Synergist and Arminian ( not like the L part of tuLip ) I can agree to be part of. Freewiller, confuses me in it's definition. .

I like this study stuff.

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

How can we be regenerated without hearing the words of faith?

Your salvation depends on which road you are on belief in Jesus or not and be condemned. There is no other road, no grey area. Either way we are condemned or saved by the words of Jesus and by your own words of what you do with His words.

 

[pinoybaptist]

How can we be regenerated without hearing the words of faith?

Your salvation depends on which road you are on belief in Jesus or not and be condemned. There is no other road, no grey area. Either way we are condemned or saved by the words of Jesus and by your own words of what you do with His words.

I guess your question is best directed to the Holy Spirit.
Ask Him how He did it to John the Baptist, who was regenerate from the womb of his mother.
Ask Him how He did it to Job, who knew his redeemer lives. How did Job know that when the Bible never mentioned a preacher visiting him at his farm.
Ask Him how He did it to Enoch, who preached in the land before God took him home without having him pass through physical death.

Ask Him, not mortal human beings like us.

 

[psalms109:31]

Prepare the way

I never question the word of God. God has chosen men to prepare the way for Jesus to bring salvation to all men who believe on the Son.

 

[olegig]

After several years on the old MS boards where you acquired a thick skin, you were never exposed to or acquired a knowledge of those terms, free willer, or synergist, or arminian?
Please don't insult our intelligence.

Oh, yes, I was quiet exposed to all those terms. I was exposed enough to learn that to many different folks who use the terms, they seem to have a different meaning.

Granted terms like trinity or rapture are not found in the Bible; but when used, there is very little doubt about the meaning.
However in the Calvinist system there seems to be those who are "Calvinist" to varying degrees and they all place a different degree of meaning to the terms they use.
Therefore before a quality discussion can be had, one must discover the definitions of the individual.
I don't know for sure why this is, perhaps a lack of common authority.

Terms like supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism, total depravity and total inability, reprobation and preterition, synergism and monergism, common grace and special grace are all thrown about in a dazzling array of confusion to most folks.
The only way to sort it all out is to ask the specific user to define his (or her) specific meaning when they use the terms.

I truly was and am ignorant of the true meaning of many of the terms used; but I don't worry too much about it because if one reads, one soon realizes that even Calvinist cannot agree among themselves on the proper definitions.

I have learned it is best to simply ask each user for his definition at the time.

Take for instance the term "Arminian".....
It seems to be used in a derogatory fashion many times and associated with those who combine an element of works with salvation.
However if one reads the words of Arminian himself, one begins to feel he is getting a bad rap.

It seems Calvin's very foundation is in trying to prove that no man in this Age of Grace has any degree of works associated with salvation.
This is an effort to which I would join and approve. However I feel one has to go no further than the scriptures themselves for the proof, not create some elaborate theology with the ever need of new terms to better explain and clarify the old terms.

please see:

Galatians 3:22-23 (King James Version)
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

We see from vs 23 there is a new faith on the scene which was only revealed after the law so this dates this new faith as a NT occurrence because the law was unto the cross when Christ fulfilled everything. But what is this new faith?

also see:

Galatians 2:16 (King James Version)
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

IMHO this new faith is the Faith of Christ as shown in vs 16 above and also in vs 22 above.

It is the Faith of Christ,,,not man's personal faith in Christ which brought salvation to all men.
Our Lord Jesus Christ did it ALL,,,,no man can boast of works or even of having a greater degree of personal faith.
And it is the salvic Faith of Christ which is gifted to men (Eph 2:8) when they but believe in Jesus Christ. (vs16 above)

After I learned these truths, I stopped worrying about the "Calvinism-Arminian" battle because I see both in error.

But........there is still the matter of the terms. I do wish Calvinist could just all agree so the rest of us would know what they mean....:thumbs:

 

[olegig]

That has always fascinated me. Never got a good answer on it.

Perhaps a good place to start would be to compare the gospel message given to us in this Age of Grace by Paul, with the instructions given in Revelation to those who find themselves on earth during the coming 7 yr Great Tribulation.

 

[OldRegular]

Perhaps a good place to start would be to compare the gospel message given to us in this Age of Grace by Paul, with the instructions given in Revelation to those who find themselves on earth during the coming 7 yr Great Tribulation.

I thought that the Bible was given to us by GOD, not Paul.

the gospel message given to us in this Age of Grace by Paul,

That sounds a little like Ituttut the hyper dispensationalist. Could it be possible???

*********************************************************
The age of Grace started when GOD slew the first animal to make atonement [temporary] for the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

What is all this about a 7 year tribulation????? Sorry, GRreat TRribulation.

 

[psalms109:31]

Holy Spirit

John 7:
38Whoever believes in me, as[Or / If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me. / And let him drink, 38 who believes in me. / As
] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

What is the difference between the Spirit given before the cross and after it and Jesus being glorified?

 

[webdog]

After several years on the old MS boards where you acquired a thick skin, you were never exposed to or acquired a knowledge of those terms, free willer, or synergist, or arminian?

Are you that ignorant that you don't realize those terms can mean different things to different people? To basically call him a liar due to your ignorance doesn't make him a liar...it makes you a false accuser.

 

[Rippon]

Are you that ignorant that you don't realize those terms can mean different things to different people? To basically call him a liar due to your ignorance doesn't make him a liar...it makes you a false accuser.

I think the terms have been established quite well. And that was the case long before the BB.

 

[webdog]

I think the terms have been established quite well. And that was the case long before the BB.

Who determined them...you? Fact is they mean different things to different people. Some think a synergist is one who believes in a works salvation which is false. Some think anyone not a calvinist is an arminian. Even "free willer" can mean different things (libertarian).

 

[Rippon]

Who determined them...you?

Have you ever heard of Historical Theology?

Fact is they mean different things to different people.

When folks want to be creative and use elastic definitions -- yes.

 

[olegig]

OldRegular,

Thanks man, you always seem to come along at the most appropriate time....:thumbs:

I thought that the Bible was given to us by GOD, not Paul.

My bad, guess I am a bit rusty. When I used to get this same retort from the Catholics I learned I should phrase it as:
"the gospel message given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ through the apostle Paul."
OldRegular, you have read the 13 books written by Paul haven't you?????

That sounds a little like Ituttut the hyper dispensationalist. Could it be possible???

Awww, there you go again with your pigeon-holein'. :smilewinkgrin:

Nawww, not to worry, I am not a "hyper" for I do believe in believer's baptism and celebrating the Lord's Supper.

But you bring up an excellent point. To some degree everyone is a dispensationalist because dispensationalism is only the recognition that God gave a different message to different folks at different times.

OldRegular I bet you too are a dispensationalist to some degree.:thumbs:

God told Noah to build an ark, are you building an ark? If not why not?????
God told Moses and the children to follow the law...OldRegular are you obeying all the diet laws of Lev?
Are you going annually to the Temple to offer your sacrifices?
I bet not.....
So you see, OldRegular, you too are a dispensationalist.

The age of Grace started when GOD slew the first animal to make atonement [temporary] for the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

Perhaps I should have termed it the "Church Age",,,sorry.
But I bet you knew what I meant because even though it is not a Biblical term, the term does have a constant meaning, agreed upon by those who enjoy it.

What is all this about a 7 year tribulation????? Sorry, GRreat TRribulation.

Its that period of time in the future spoken of by Daniel.
You have read the book of Daniel haven't you?
Its also mentioned in the Revelation when 2/3 of the folks will be killed and hail stones the size of a talent (about 130 lbs.) will fall from heaven.
Its a time when all the rivers will run with blood. Rev 16:4)
Jesus spoke of the time in Matt 24.
No matter what your age is, I bet you haven't seen these things nor heard of them in history.

-------------------------------
Now to anyone....
I have figured out how to click on the quote and get the whole post of someone to be copied in the reply message,,,,but how does one separate the quotes as brother OldRegular did in post 172?
thanks in advance.......

 

[webdog]

Have you ever heard of Historical Theology?

Are you trying to tell me every time someone used one of those phrases they are referring to "Historical Theology"? Why am I still called an Arminian then by your camp (when I'm clearly NOT)?

When folks want to be creative and use elastic definitions -- yes.

Has nothing to do with being creative. I'm told since I believe in the free agency of an individual I automatically believe I'm sovereign over God. Has nothing to do with being creative...but understanding it falsely.

 

[RAdam]

John 7:
38Whoever believes in me, as[Or / If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me. / And let him drink, 38 who believes in me. / As
] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

What is the difference between the Spirit given before the cross and after it and Jesus being glorified?

I think it is speaking of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Read Ephesians 4:8-12.