Was Christ Ignorant of OSAS?

[Amy.G]

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

At this point the young man asks Jesus which commandments should I keep?

Matthew 19:18-19 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The young man says oh I've kept all those, but what do I LACK?

If keeping the commandments would give the young man eternal life, why then does he ask what he "lacks"?


Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


Here we see what the young man lacked. His heart was not right in that he was not willing to give up his money to help the poor, proving that he had not kept the commandment to love thy neighbor or the commandment to have no other gods before God. His money was his god. He needed the grace of God.

 

[DHK]

To add to what Amy said:

Matthew 19:17-19 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

In verse twenty the young man lies. He had not kept the Ten Commandments from his youth up. Right now he was bearing false witness. By the end Jesus would demonstrate to him that he would covet his riches more than Christ. He could not keep the Ten Commandments. He was a liar.

Yet in his grace and mercy, as the same event is related in Mark, here is what is recorded:

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Jesus beheld him and loved him.

He gave him a chance to repent, a chance to leave his riches, a chance to follow Christ.

But:
Mark 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
--Covetousness is a big sin.
Thou shalt not covet.
It is a command without a stated penalty; but in this case it is a big enough sin to keep this person out of heaven.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Amazing how the "I can fall away" guys are so proud of their stance yet their unkind attitude "poisoning the well" is ok.

It's the rhetorical equivilent of putting your hands over your ears and going "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA".

 

[Zenas]

Well you unkind attitude "contempt" towards "OSAS" makes you worthy of the kingdom? Can unkindness keep you out of Heaven? Or will you spin your way out?

I never have a benevolent attitude toward heresy.

 

[Zenas]

How about you Zenas?

Would you like God to judge your eternal destiny by the law on any given day?

I'm not being judged by the law; I'm being judged by my deeds any yes, some days I might be a little short. That's why I keep 1 John 1:9 in mind and ask for forgivenes a lot.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I never have a benevolent attitude toward heresy.

First of all, even if the Biblical doctrine of eternal security is wrong, it still doesn't rise to the level of heresy. At best, it would be what Paul refers to as a "disputable doctrine".

Second, if you truly do believe that it's heresy, then you do have an obligation to try to correct us Biblically (that includes showing Biblical evidence and presenting it humbly and respectfully). It would be only after you did so and we refused to repent that you can take such a hard line.

For all you know, we may simply be in error and need your superior understanding of the word of God to correct us.

 

[steaver]

I'm not being judged by the law; I'm being judged by my deeds any yes, some days I might be a little short. That's why I keep 1 John 1:9 in mind and ask for forgivenes a lot.

Would you like God to judge your eternal destiny by your deeds on any given day?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

i'm not being judged by the law; i'm being judged by my deeds

lol.......

 

[Zenas]

This is a tactic commonly known as "poisoning the well". Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's also very childish and tells us that you're not sincere and are not willing to listen to anything anyone else has to say.

One of the reasons I joined this board about 3 years ago was to find out what what Baptists really believe. I think I understand what most members of my church believe but their theology is about 2 inches deep. So I found this board and I've learned a lot, but nothing I have read has convinced me that OSAS is anything but false doctrine and a dangerous false doctrine at that. So yes, I'm still listening but somehow you're not getting through.

By the way, JDF, I'm pretty busy tonight but when I get a chance I will throw together 50 scripture passages that prove you can lose your salvation.

 

[Zenas]

Amazing how the "I can fall away" guys are so proud of their stance yet their unkind attitude "poisoning the well" is ok.

Like I said, I will denounce heresy wherever I see it and ernestly contend for the faith.

 

[Zenas]

First of all, even if the Biblical doctrine of eternal security is wrong, it still doesn't rise to the level of heresy. At best, it would be what Paul refers to as a "disputable doctrine".

All right, I can accept that but it is dangerous because it gives a person a license to sin. You say, no such thing, and point to something like Romans 6:1-2, but the unlearned Christian doesn't understand this. Come to think of though, it doesn't really matter if OSAS is really true.

 

[Zenas]

Would you like God to judge your eternal destiny by your deeds on any given day?

No, but it's a reality I (and you) must live with.

 

[steaver]

No, but it's a reality I (and you) must live with.

Wow!

You are declaring that you do not know if you will be found worthy of God's eternal life.


I do not have to live with it because it is not a reality at all.

This is the reality of not understanding faith alone and eternal security in Christ. You are a perfect example, having uncertainty of your future destiny, heaven or hell. Rather than a focus on others time is wasted on focussing on self and whether or not one has enough good deeds to be chosen for eternal life.

Rather than good deeds being done out of love, they are done out of fear about self. Not understanding faith alone and eternal security in Christ causes one to misplace their heart and their efforts of love become self serving rather than God serving.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

All right, I can accept that but it is dangerous because it gives a person a license to sin.

No, actually, it doesn't. Just the opposite, in fact. It teaches that if we continue to live in sin that we were not saved in the first place.

You say, no such thing, and point to something like Romans 6:1-2, but the unlearned Christian doesn't understand this. Come to think of though, it doesn't really matter if OSAS is really true.

First of all, you're engaging in poisoning the well again. I really don't think you realize how childish this makes you look, particularly when so many people in this thread are trying to be respectful and patient with you, in spite of your constant personal attacks.

Second, yes, I would cite all of Romans 6.

Third, that you say that unlearned Christians don't understand this doesn't make it any less true.

Third, it does matter if eternal security is true for the reasons I've already explained to you, which you have, so far, neglected to address.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

One of the reasons I joined this board about 3 years ago was to find out what what Baptists really believe.

And yet, rather than asking us what we believe, you seem to be intent upon telling us what we believe.

nothing I have read has convinced me that OSAS is anything but false doctrine and a dangerous false doctrine at that.

And yet, nothing you've shown here negates any of the verses I've shown you.

By the way, JDF, I'm pretty busy tonight but when I get a chance I will throw together 50 scripture passages that prove you can lose your salvation.

Honestly? Unless you address the verses I've shown you first, I'm not interested.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Like I said, I will denounce heresy wherever I see it and ernestly contend for the faith.

You attitude doesn't square with scripture. I have known others that believe you can fall away,but are gentle and humble and kind.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Like I said, I will denounce heresy wherever I see it

First of all, even if the Biblical doctrine of eternal security is wrong, it still doesn't rise to the level of heresy. At best, it would be what Paul refers to as a "disputable doctrine".

Second, if you truly do believe that it's heresy, then you do have an obligation to try to correct us Biblically (that includes showing Biblical evidence and presenting it humbly and respectfully). It would be only after you did so and we refused to repent that you can take such a hard line.

and ernestly contend for the faith.

But you're not contending for the faith. You're just ignoring everything we say and then giving answers that don't address what we say and making personal attacks.

I gave you a very long list of verses and passages that show that eternal security is Biblical and you've completely ignored them. That isn't the mark of someone who is contending for the faith.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You attitude doesn't square with scripture.

I agree. Even if our believe in the Biblical doctrine of eternal security is wrong, even if it does rise to the level of heresy, and even if this guy is perfectly correct and makes a brilliant case for having to earn our salvation, he is still in error because of his attitude.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Like I said, I will denounce heresy wherever I see it and ernestly contend for the faith.

This is a double mind saying "So yes, I'm still listening but somehow you're not getting through."...
.....but call it Heresy? You have proven you don't have a teachable spirit.

 

[drfuss]

Wow!

You are declaring that you do not know if you will be found worthy of God's eternal life.


I do not have to live with it because it is not a reality at all.

This is the reality of not understanding faith alone and eternal security in Christ. You are a perfect example, having uncertainty of your future destiny, heaven or hell. Rather than a focus on others time is wasted on focussing on self and whether or not one has enough good deeds to be chosen for eternal life.

Rather than good deeds being done out of love, they are done out of fear about self. Not understanding faith alone and eternal security in Christ causes one to misplace their heart and their efforts of love become self serving rather than God serving.

Don't assume all those who don't believe in the doctrine of eternal security, do not know for sure that they are saved, based on this one example. Most Christians who don't believe in the doctrine of eternal security, are just as sure of their salvation as you are. Their assurance of salvation is based on the continued belief in Christ just as for those who believe in eternal security.

I know of some people who take a few examples like this, and broadbrush it to assume that all who don't believe in the doctrine of eternal security, are not sure their salvation in secure.