Winman writes:
"Well, you and Luke keep speaking of Arminians. To most Calvinists, anyone who is not a Calvinist must be an Arminian. That is not so."
I am aware of the names mix up problem that you speak of. That is the reason that I used eternal security believer rather than Calvinist in most if not all of my posts. Christians who believe in only some of the 5 points of Calvinism sometimes call themselves Moderate Calvinists.
To me, an Arminian (Classic) is a Christian who believes he can forfeit his salvation by deciding to stop believing, or a Wesleyan Arminian who believes he can lose his salvation by long time continual resisting the conviction of the Holy Spirit about sin in his life, while still believing.
Well, it is not that the Arminians do not have legitimate arguments. There are many verses in the scriptures that can be interpreted to seem to say a person who is saved can lose their salvation. Probably the greatest passage to this effect is Hebrews 6:4-9. I believe that it was Pastor J. Vernon McGee who said this is the most fearful passage in all the scriptures.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
This is a very fearful passage of scripture, because it speaks of persons who were one enlightened, have tasted of the heavenly gift, were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come who have fallen away.
The Arminian will say, "See, this person has been born again, they have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, yet they can fall away"
The Calvinist will say, "No, the writter (most likely Paul) is stating an impossibility" and point to the word "if" that starts verse 6.
But this is a very weak argument, as many scholars agree. Why go to all this trouble to express something that is impossible? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
In my opinion (and others), the problem is both sides are wrong. They are not truly understanding what this passage says.
The Calvinist cannot understand this passage because they think it impossible for the unregenerate man to be enlightened and be a partaker of the Holy Spirit. Therefore they conclude this passage must be speaking of a regenerate, born again person.
The Arminian cannot understand this passage because they believe it is speaking of a person who has been born again.
In reality, they both believe the same thing. But I believe both are wrong.
This verse is not speaking of someone who has been born again. It is speaking of a person who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit. They have "tasted" of the word of God, but they have not "eaten" of the word of God.
There is a difference between tasting and actually eating. If you were starving to death, it would not help you to simply taste food. No, you need to actually eat food to nourish yourself.
So, this is a person who has been brought to the understanding that they are a sinner and that Jesus died for their sins. They clearly understand that. But for whatever reason they will not fully eat, that is, trust on Jesus. There is some sin in their life they do not want to give up. They choose this sin over Jesus.
I believe a person like this will never be brought to this point again. They will be hardened. They have heard the truth, they understand the truth, but they reject it because of their love of sin. From this point on, they will become hardened to the gospel. It will never convict them to this degree again.
Matthew Henry agreed with this interpretation.
1. He shows how far persons may go in religion, and, after all, fall away, and perish for ever, v. 4, 5. (1.) They may be enlightened. Some of the ancients understand this of their being baptized; but it is rather to be understood of notional knowledge and common illumination, of which persons may have a great deal, and yet come short of heaven. Balaam was the man whose eyes were opened (Num. 24:3), and yet with his eyes opened he went down to utter darkness. (2.) They may taste of the heavenly gift, feel something of the efficacy of the Holy Spirit in his operations upon their souls, causing them to taste something of religion, and yet be like persons in the market, who taste of what they will not come up to the price of, and so but take a taste, and leave it. Persons may taste religion, and seem to like it, if they could have it upon easier terms than denying themselves, and taking up their cross, and following Christ. (3.) They may be made partakers of the Holy Ghost, that is, of his extraordinary and miraculous gifts; they may have cast out devils in the name of Christ, and done many other mighty works. Such gifts in the apostolic age were sometimes bestowed upon those who had no true saving grace. (4.) They may taste of the good word of God; they may have some relish of gospel doctrines, may hear the word with pleasure, may remember much of it, and talk well of it, and yet never be cast into the form and mould of it, nor have it dwelling richly in them. (5.) They may have tasted of the powers of the world to come; they may have been under strong impressions concerning heaven, and dread of going to hell. These lengths hypocrites may go, and, after all, turn apostates. Now hence observe, [1.] These great things are spoken here of those who may fall away; yet it is not here said of them that they were truly converted, or that they were justified; there is more in true saving grace than in all that is here said of apostates. [2.] This therefore is no proof of the final apostasy of true saints. These indeed may fall frequently and foully, but yet they will not totally nor finally from God; the purpose and the power of God, the purchase and the prayer of Christ, the promise of the gospel, the everlasting covenant that God has made with them, ordered in all things and sure, the indwelling of the Spirit, and the immortal seed of the word, these are their security. But the tree that has not these roots will not stand.
The funny thing is, Calvinists and Arminians actually believe the same thing, but see from a different perspective. The Calvinist cannot imagine an unregenerated person being enlightened, so this passage has to be speaking of a regenerate person, the Arminian also cannot understand that this is not speaking of a person who has not been born again. They believe the same thing from a different perspective, or from opposite direction.
I do not believe this passage is speaking of someone who has been born again. They have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit, but they have only tasted, not eaten.
John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
To eat means to trust, to depend upon for sustenance.
