The minister of transport and roads in my land is Mr Pothole Slaggate. Elsewhere he is called Devil.
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Eternal Security is NEVER wrong.
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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How long is Never?
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Where else is the Crown of Life mentioned in scripture? Where is Crown of Life called or compared to eternal life?
See Job for an example of what this means. BTW Jesus said, "Because I live you shall live also" John 14:19.
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adisciplinedlearner
New Member
The crown of life should be understood to mean the crown which is life. The other crowns mentioned in the New Testament should be understood in this same manner. The crown of life is not some kind of meritorious crown earned by the Christian.
Dr. Walter
New Member
The believer is said to have "everlasting life" in his/her possession already and has passed from death to life (Jn. 5:24). Further, Jesus tells Martha that "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" The only aspect of the redeemed that dies is their body. This is the resurrection "unto life" in regard to the body as their soul has never died or never ceased to be in union with God.
Hence, the "crown of life" cannot have anything to do with being granted spiritual life as they have NEVER lost that. It can only do with REWARDS in the future life after the resurrection for faithfulness while in their body in this life. The same is true with the other crowns. Jesus speaks of those who are "least" versus those who are "greatest" in the kingdom of heaven (Mt. 5:19) and that is "according to their works" which play no role in obtaining salvation as the "least" broke His commandments and taught others to do the same and the consequence was not the loss of salvation but the loss of status in the kingdom:
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Mt. 5:19
The greatest will receive the "crown" in the life to come or the "greatest" reward.
Regardless, who you apply I Cor. 3:11-15 to, it still teaches there will be various degrees of rewards in heaven that have nothing to do with ones salvation status:
11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
These scripture prove that the judgement of the saints is not about any kind of decision or judgement in regard to spiritual life as they will stand in SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ on judgement day but it has to do with REWARDS that determine the "greatest" to the "least" in regard to position in heaven and individually it will acknowledge every aspect of life that glorified God that will be manifest in the glory revealed in their resurrected bodies as one star differs in glory from another star.
Can the Devil deceive you and cause you to loose salvation? Never!
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Judas Iscariot turned from and against Christ and forfeited his salvation. This is proof positive that a Christian can become an apostate.
The only proof is your not reading all the scriptures. Does God sometimes choose to use devils to accomplish His purposes too?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
JK, you prove nothing by your comment. Until you can prove 'once a devil proves you always were a devil' you have proved nothing of substance. Satan was not always a devil JK so your so-called logic falls flat. Neither was Judas always a devil.
You might even condider the statement of Christ to Peter as well, "Get thee behind me Satan."
You might even condider the statement of Christ to Peter as well, "Get thee behind me Satan."
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
You're missing what is being said "if it ain't eternal security, I don't want to be right! Ha!"
TS.....your starting to sound like Speed Racers Father, Ha!
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Hello everyone.
I do believe in the election according as what the Bible say so. Notice in 2 Peter 1:10 says: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
This tells us, our responsible to make our calling and election sure, for IF we do these things, we would not fall. That means, if we do not do these things as what we are suppose to obey Him, then, we would not be elect at the end.
Christ made the point that, the fact is, many were called, but few are chosen. Because He knows most of them were "called"(beginning salvation, when once enter into the narrow road), but afterward, most of them fall away, are not chosen-eternal life. Most of them are end up in everlasting fire according Matt. 7:13-14.
Also, in Hebrews 3:6 says: "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the END." Clearly, this telling us, we are truly God's children, unless, IF we endure till the end. That meqans, we must endure with our faith all the way throughout our life till death or Messiah comes. Or else, if we do not endure in our lifetime, then we would not receive eternal life, might be end up in everlasting fire.
Heb. 3:6 is not only speaking to the Jews, also, it apply to us as believers well. I urge you to read throughout whole context chapter 3 and chapter 4 of Hebrews. These are very clear speaking of condition with warnings. We must take heed as what it saying, obey and follow Him.
I have seen so much overwhelmed of conditionals throughout whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Therefore, it doesn't support unconditional eternal security doctrine.
In Messiah
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I do believe in the election according as what the Bible say so. Notice in 2 Peter 1:10 says: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
This tells us, our responsible to make our calling and election sure, for IF we do these things, we would not fall. That means, if we do not do these things as what we are suppose to obey Him, then, we would not be elect at the end.
Christ made the point that, the fact is, many were called, but few are chosen. Because He knows most of them were "called"(beginning salvation, when once enter into the narrow road), but afterward, most of them fall away, are not chosen-eternal life. Most of them are end up in everlasting fire according Matt. 7:13-14.
Also, in Hebrews 3:6 says: "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the END." Clearly, this telling us, we are truly God's children, unless, IF we endure till the end. That meqans, we must endure with our faith all the way throughout our life till death or Messiah comes. Or else, if we do not endure in our lifetime, then we would not receive eternal life, might be end up in everlasting fire.
Heb. 3:6 is not only speaking to the Jews, also, it apply to us as believers well. I urge you to read throughout whole context chapter 3 and chapter 4 of Hebrews. These are very clear speaking of condition with warnings. We must take heed as what it saying, obey and follow Him.
I have seen so much overwhelmed of conditionals throughout whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Therefore, it doesn't support unconditional eternal security doctrine.
In Messiah
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Dr. Walter
New Member
Those in Hebrews 3 are said in Hebrews 4:2 to have never really believed in the gospel from their heart. Those in Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus claimed to have NEVER known them. Those in Peter are only promised that they shall never fall from assurance of salvation as such who do not do these things have "forgotten" they were purged. Obedience maintain personal assurance while disobedience causes the believer to fall from that assurance and fail to obtain an "abundant" entrance as there are differences in the kindom from "least" to "greatest" in regard to obedience (Mt. 5:19).
Mt. 7:23"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Heb. 4:2"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."
2 Pet. 1:9bhath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I was going more for a chim chim.
You fall flat to think Peter was a devil. Satan can put an idea in his head for a moment but the Lord rebuked him...but never did Jesus say "You are a devil Peter". Your theory make distortions of the scriptures. Jesus said "and the gates of Hell will not prevail"...against who? The church....who is the church? The chosen!
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Just because you lack..... does not null the scriptures. Never Perish!
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
You jump to unwarrented conclusions JK. I did NOT say Peter was a devil now did I? I simply asked you to consider that remark.
Why do you avoid responding to the notion that your flawed logic accepts the position that 'if a devil always a devil' must be true, something that Satan clearly disproves? Even though Judas was a devil at the time Jesus said he was is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he always was of the same nature. That is an unproven presupposition. Your OSAS presuppositions necessitate your conclusions, not Scripture or logic. You merely beg the question concerning Judas. You assume without proof that he was always as he was when Jesus called him a devil.
Why do you avoid responding to the notion that your flawed logic accepts the position that 'if a devil always a devil' must be true, something that Satan clearly disproves? Even though Judas was a devil at the time Jesus said he was is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he always was of the same nature. That is an unproven presupposition. Your OSAS presuppositions necessitate your conclusions, not Scripture or logic. You merely beg the question concerning Judas. You assume without proof that he was always as he was when Jesus called him a devil.
Heavenly you cannot discern if your truly elect....but can tell others how it is. You are ignorant that the natural man's reason cannot understand the things of God? Did you jump that part? God can indeed use a devil to get something done as God will's. The holy Spirit reveals truth....if you don't have the Holy Spirit inside you...can you understand the things of God?
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: This is certainly a most abused text. Those posting it more often than not are trying to say that this passage of Scripture proves that if one does not make it in God never knew them. That conclusion is simply not supported by the context of this passage, and is a falsely assumed end. Listen to how DW and others merely assume without proof such a conclusion as to the meaning and application of this verse.
First, look at the context. In order to assume the end that DW assumes, EVERONE THAT ENDS UP LOST MUST OF NECESSITY BE OF THIS GROUP. Is that established by the text? Does everyone that is lost stand before God as those do in this passage and claim to be in a right relationship with God? Who is DW kidding? The text itself does not say that God never knew an that will be lost or all that are lost believe they are right with God. This text neither states nor implies any such notion. This text, if context means anything, anything at all, that these select individuals spoken of, God never knew them.
Many that are lost in the end know full well that they are lost, and will not be of the group spoken of here. That does not prove or support any notion such as OSAS period, just as God saying that God did not know these fails to prove anything whatsoever concerning OSAS as DW and many others that are under that false delusion obviously believe.
This is the manner in which DW, and many others leaning hard towards Calvinism, continually beg the question. They assume without proof their assumptions of OSAS and try and apply that unfounded presupposition upon certain selected ‘proof texts’, reading into each selected passage the desired outcome that will support their unfounded presupposition.
Does DW disagree? If so, let him prove by the ‘Scripture passage itself’ that every one that is lost belongs to a group of individuals that God says ‘He did not know’ and as such every lost person is of this select group made mention of in this text. Show us your ability to decipher the GK and or English tense of verbs or context to establish your conclusions.
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