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Catholic Taliban?
- Thread starter DHK
- Start date
I did, St. Francis Xavier murdered nobody. Your 'fightin fundies' in India seem to be doing just that though. You say they are just accusations. I think dead bodies are pretty good evidence that the accusations are probably true. You ought to actually read the articles you post before you post them. It makes you look like a [offensive language removed]
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Walter
New Member
"I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party." -Adolf Hitler
The Holocaust was a 20th century inquisition done under cover of the Nazi party. Hitler was catholic; and when it became known that Pope Pius XI supported Hitler, the Roman Catholic vote swept Hitler into power in 1933.
Read what the press of the Spanish dictator, Franco, published following Hitler's death. It said, "Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It goes on to say, "Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."
Walter Schellenberg, former chief of Nazi counter-espionage made this statement: "The S.S. organization had been constituted by Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly. Himmler's title as supreme chief of the S.S. was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' 'General' and the whole structure was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order."
Franz von Papen, another powerful Nazi, who was instrumental in setting up the concordat between Germany and the Vatican had this to say: "The Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges but also puts into practice the high principles of the papacy." If you are not aware of what a concordat is, a concordat is an agreement between the Vatican and a government. As far as the Vatican is concerned, that government that signed the concordat has now become a part of the government of God, and the Vatican fully intends to stabilize that government, give it divine protection, and give it international protection.
Signing the concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933 he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Second from left is Franz von Papen, a sinister Nazi and devout Roman Catholic who was Hitler's ace diplomat and the Vatican's agent in helping to bring Hitler to power. Standing at the far right can be seen the little-known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.
Hitler with Catholic Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo
Hitler greeting a Catholic Cardinal
Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute
Catholic Cardinal Michael Faulhaber at a Nazi rally
Catholic Cardinal with Nazis
Hitler's Brown Army attending and leaving Catholic church services.
Hitler at Nazi party rally
Notice the Catholic church in the background as if it represented the foundation of the party.
"I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."
-Adolf Hitler
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/110142-1
The Holocaust was a 20th century inquisition done under cover of the Nazi party. Hitler was catholic; and when it became known that Pope Pius XI supported Hitler, the Roman Catholic vote swept Hitler into power in 1933.
Read what the press of the Spanish dictator, Franco, published following Hitler's death. It said, "Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It goes on to say, "Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."
Walter Schellenberg, former chief of Nazi counter-espionage made this statement: "The S.S. organization had been constituted by Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly. Himmler's title as supreme chief of the S.S. was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' 'General' and the whole structure was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order."
Franz von Papen, another powerful Nazi, who was instrumental in setting up the concordat between Germany and the Vatican had this to say: "The Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges but also puts into practice the high principles of the papacy." If you are not aware of what a concordat is, a concordat is an agreement between the Vatican and a government. As far as the Vatican is concerned, that government that signed the concordat has now become a part of the government of God, and the Vatican fully intends to stabilize that government, give it divine protection, and give it international protection.
Signing the concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933 he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Second from left is Franz von Papen, a sinister Nazi and devout Roman Catholic who was Hitler's ace diplomat and the Vatican's agent in helping to bring Hitler to power. Standing at the far right can be seen the little-known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.
Hitler with Catholic Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo
Hitler greeting a Catholic Cardinal
Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute
Catholic Cardinal Michael Faulhaber at a Nazi rally
Catholic Cardinal with Nazis
Hitler's Brown Army attending and leaving Catholic church services.
Hitler at Nazi party rally
Notice the Catholic church in the background as if it represented the foundation of the party.
"I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."
-Adolf Hitler
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/110142-1
Dr. Walter
New Member
The Roman Catholic Holocost - Ustachi
Roman Catholic Priests turned Nazi death squads forced Serbians to either convert from Greek Othodox to Roman Catholic or be executed and/or sent to concentration camps. These Nazi Catholics were the worst killers in World War II. They were so bad that even the S.S. decided to decommission them.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=3151.0
Roman Catholic Priests turned Nazi death squads forced Serbians to either convert from Greek Othodox to Roman Catholic or be executed and/or sent to concentration camps. These Nazi Catholics were the worst killers in World War II. They were so bad that even the S.S. decided to decommission them.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=3151.0
Dr. Walter
New Member
A Roman Catholic priest forcibly "converting" a whole village of Orthodox Serbs. 'Father' Ante Djuric, of the District of Dvor, always opened his "sermons" with the following preliminary: "The Orthodox of this District have only three ways out: to accept the Catholic faith, to move out [leaving behind them all their possessions], or to be cleansed with the metal broom."
The picture of this preist doing this in a village in Crotia and picture of the government document authorizing this can be found at the following web site:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=3151.0
The picture of this preist doing this in a village in Crotia and picture of the government document authorizing this can be found at the following web site:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=3151.0
Dr. Walter
New Member
Pope Beautifies a Ustashi Mass Murderer - 1998
Pope beatifies a Mass Murderer – after canonising another
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb during World War II, was the very opposite of a saint: he approved, directed and perpetrated mass murder in the name and employ of the Vatican.
Professor Arthur Noble
In October, 1998, Pope John Paul II paid a visit to Croatia to beatify Cardinal Alojsije Stepinac. Beatification in the Church of Rome is only one step away from nomination to sainthood. Writers such as Avro Manhattan (Catholic Terror Today) and Edmond Paris (The Vatican against Europe) have recounted in horrific detail how Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb during World War II, was the very opposite of a saint: he approved, directed and perpetrated mass murder in the name and employ of the Vatican.
The English Churchman recently carried the following comment:
The real activities of Stepinac during World War II are graphically documented in the chapter entitled "Monsignor Stepinac's Croatia" in Edmund Paris' book The Vatican against Europe. Having "welcomed the creation of the Nazi puppet Croat state", Stepinac sat in the Ustashi Parliament which approved the policy of extermination of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Jews, Gypsies and communists. Stepinac wrote in the Croatian Sentinel on 1st January, 1942: "Hitler is an envoy of God."
It is not possible to repeat here all the horrors of the forced conversions, the slow tortures and the ugly deaths of the resisting Serbs. Throughout 1942 Stepinac wore Ustashi decorations, attended all their important official meetings and made speeches.
What is more, it comes as no real surprise when the Catholic Times of 11th October this year [1998] reports Stepinac's beatification under the headline "A surprise endorsement".
The paper proceeds to describe the gratitude of the head of the Croatian Jewish community for Stepinac's intervention later in the war. This is in keeping with Edmund Paris' account. He says: "It is true that at the end of 1943, when everyone saw that the Nazis and Fascists were losing, Monsignor Stepinac took certain steps to provide for the future."
However, at his trial for war crimes in the Autumn of 1946 the evidence of his not only having consented to but also having "organised" Ustashi units and "crusaders" for the purpose of forcing Serbs to convert to Rome was overwhelming, and he was sentenced to 16 years' hard labour."
Stepinac a saint? It is with typical brazen effrontery that Rome projects this notorious satanic monster as a candidate for sainthood.
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=stepinac
Pope beatifies a Mass Murderer – after canonising another
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb during World War II, was the very opposite of a saint: he approved, directed and perpetrated mass murder in the name and employ of the Vatican.
Professor Arthur Noble
In October, 1998, Pope John Paul II paid a visit to Croatia to beatify Cardinal Alojsije Stepinac. Beatification in the Church of Rome is only one step away from nomination to sainthood. Writers such as Avro Manhattan (Catholic Terror Today) and Edmond Paris (The Vatican against Europe) have recounted in horrific detail how Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb during World War II, was the very opposite of a saint: he approved, directed and perpetrated mass murder in the name and employ of the Vatican.
The English Churchman recently carried the following comment:
The real activities of Stepinac during World War II are graphically documented in the chapter entitled "Monsignor Stepinac's Croatia" in Edmund Paris' book The Vatican against Europe. Having "welcomed the creation of the Nazi puppet Croat state", Stepinac sat in the Ustashi Parliament which approved the policy of extermination of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Jews, Gypsies and communists. Stepinac wrote in the Croatian Sentinel on 1st January, 1942: "Hitler is an envoy of God."
It is not possible to repeat here all the horrors of the forced conversions, the slow tortures and the ugly deaths of the resisting Serbs. Throughout 1942 Stepinac wore Ustashi decorations, attended all their important official meetings and made speeches.
What is more, it comes as no real surprise when the Catholic Times of 11th October this year [1998] reports Stepinac's beatification under the headline "A surprise endorsement".
The paper proceeds to describe the gratitude of the head of the Croatian Jewish community for Stepinac's intervention later in the war. This is in keeping with Edmund Paris' account. He says: "It is true that at the end of 1943, when everyone saw that the Nazis and Fascists were losing, Monsignor Stepinac took certain steps to provide for the future."
However, at his trial for war crimes in the Autumn of 1946 the evidence of his not only having consented to but also having "organised" Ustashi units and "crusaders" for the purpose of forcing Serbs to convert to Rome was overwhelming, and he was sentenced to 16 years' hard labour."
Stepinac a saint? It is with typical brazen effrontery that Rome projects this notorious satanic monster as a candidate for sainthood.
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=stepinac
Dr. Walter
New Member
Ante Pavelic - Franciscan mass murderer
For Immediate Release
Jonathan Levy and Tom Easton, Attorneys
Tel. 513-528-0586
E mail: resistk@yahoo.com
www.vaticanbankclaims.com
February 17, 2002
The Original Butcher of the Balkans: Pavelic not Milosevic
Ante Pavelic was the original Butcher of the Balkans." He was the leader of the Nazi puppet government of the "Independent State of Croatia" who died peacefully in Madrid in 1959. The mass murderer of 40,000 Jews, 80,000 Gypsies, and over 500,000 Serbs survived the Second World War and never faced a war crimes tribunal unlike Slobodan Milosevic whose alleged crimes pale in comparison. Instead Pavelic was offered sanctuary by the Vatican and became a security advisor to Juan and Eva Person before retiring to fascist Spain.
Key to Pavelics survival was the so-called Croatian Treasury, really nothing more than Pavelics personal wealth, the plunder of concentration camps and massacres throughout the Balkans and beyond. Wherever the loyal Ustashe (Croatian Nazis) served Pavelic and Hitler, Orthodox Christian churches and Jewish synagogues were plundered and the property of Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Ukrainians and others were confiscated. The crimes of Pavelic and the Ustashe were so barbaric that even hardened Nazis were disgusted by it.
In the final days of World War II, Pavelic and his inner circle bought and bribed their way to Rome where help was waiting at the Vatican. Pavelic committed genocide on a level far greater than any known before or since in the Balkans but he had been personally received by Pius XII during his reign of terror. The Franciscan Order and Vatican bank eagerly helped launder Pavelics loot the proceeds of which were used to establish the so called ratline which helped thousands of Nazis and Ustashe escape to South America.
Over 50 years later, a class action lawsuit was filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in 1998 seeking an accounting of the Pavelic loot. The defendants, the Vatican bank, Franciscan order, and the remaining Ustashe were asked to account for the gold, silver, and gems plundered so many years ago. A Federal judge has taken the case under submission.
Last month, an ex US Army intelligence official revealed that Pavelics body is secured at a secret location in Madrid awaiting its eventual return to the homeland. Pavelics followers view the current Croatian state as the successor to the Nazi inspired Independent State of Croatia, their legacy will be fulfilled only by the return of their supreme leader or in the Croatian language, Poglavnik, to lie in state in Zagreb. Tudjman, the late blood stained ruler of Croatia, was a proponent of returning Pavelic to Croatia and indeed Pavelic would be pleased to find many new public monuments to his loyal Ustashe springing up like toadstools after a spring rain in democratic Croatia.
Attorneys in the class action lawsuit even while awaiting the courts ruling are opening up a second front against the Croatian Nazis in Madrid. It is thought a large portion of the Croatian treasure was secreted in Madrid and remains there yet along with Pavelics relatives and loyal Ustashe who maintain a vigil over their leaders grave. According to attorney Jonathan Levy, Spanish law firms have been contacted and an action of some sort in Spain is likely especially in light of the Spanish National Courts recent interest in the Pinochet case. According to Levy, "The Spanish courts have been interested in fighting Fascism abroad but here is an even worse case at home, lets hope they will put the principles of International Law at work on this domestic case and stop the Ustashe."
A ceremony presided over by Croatian Franciscan priests is thought to take place annually on Pavelics birthday. At such Ustashe ceremonies eternal hatred towards Serbs and others are sworn on a crucifix, knife, and a revolver. Many Ustashe returned to Croatia in 1991 and have played a role in the ongoing hostilities in Herzegovina ensuring the continuation of a cycle violence that began in 1941 with Pavelic.
http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/pavelic.htm
For Immediate Release
Jonathan Levy and Tom Easton, Attorneys
Tel. 513-528-0586
E mail: resistk@yahoo.com
www.vaticanbankclaims.com
February 17, 2002
The Original Butcher of the Balkans: Pavelic not Milosevic
Ante Pavelic was the original Butcher of the Balkans." He was the leader of the Nazi puppet government of the "Independent State of Croatia" who died peacefully in Madrid in 1959. The mass murderer of 40,000 Jews, 80,000 Gypsies, and over 500,000 Serbs survived the Second World War and never faced a war crimes tribunal unlike Slobodan Milosevic whose alleged crimes pale in comparison. Instead Pavelic was offered sanctuary by the Vatican and became a security advisor to Juan and Eva Person before retiring to fascist Spain.
Key to Pavelics survival was the so-called Croatian Treasury, really nothing more than Pavelics personal wealth, the plunder of concentration camps and massacres throughout the Balkans and beyond. Wherever the loyal Ustashe (Croatian Nazis) served Pavelic and Hitler, Orthodox Christian churches and Jewish synagogues were plundered and the property of Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Ukrainians and others were confiscated. The crimes of Pavelic and the Ustashe were so barbaric that even hardened Nazis were disgusted by it.
In the final days of World War II, Pavelic and his inner circle bought and bribed their way to Rome where help was waiting at the Vatican. Pavelic committed genocide on a level far greater than any known before or since in the Balkans but he had been personally received by Pius XII during his reign of terror. The Franciscan Order and Vatican bank eagerly helped launder Pavelics loot the proceeds of which were used to establish the so called ratline which helped thousands of Nazis and Ustashe escape to South America.
Over 50 years later, a class action lawsuit was filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in 1998 seeking an accounting of the Pavelic loot. The defendants, the Vatican bank, Franciscan order, and the remaining Ustashe were asked to account for the gold, silver, and gems plundered so many years ago. A Federal judge has taken the case under submission.
Last month, an ex US Army intelligence official revealed that Pavelics body is secured at a secret location in Madrid awaiting its eventual return to the homeland. Pavelics followers view the current Croatian state as the successor to the Nazi inspired Independent State of Croatia, their legacy will be fulfilled only by the return of their supreme leader or in the Croatian language, Poglavnik, to lie in state in Zagreb. Tudjman, the late blood stained ruler of Croatia, was a proponent of returning Pavelic to Croatia and indeed Pavelic would be pleased to find many new public monuments to his loyal Ustashe springing up like toadstools after a spring rain in democratic Croatia.
Attorneys in the class action lawsuit even while awaiting the courts ruling are opening up a second front against the Croatian Nazis in Madrid. It is thought a large portion of the Croatian treasure was secreted in Madrid and remains there yet along with Pavelics relatives and loyal Ustashe who maintain a vigil over their leaders grave. According to attorney Jonathan Levy, Spanish law firms have been contacted and an action of some sort in Spain is likely especially in light of the Spanish National Courts recent interest in the Pinochet case. According to Levy, "The Spanish courts have been interested in fighting Fascism abroad but here is an even worse case at home, lets hope they will put the principles of International Law at work on this domestic case and stop the Ustashe."
A ceremony presided over by Croatian Franciscan priests is thought to take place annually on Pavelics birthday. At such Ustashe ceremonies eternal hatred towards Serbs and others are sworn on a crucifix, knife, and a revolver. Many Ustashe returned to Croatia in 1991 and have played a role in the ongoing hostilities in Herzegovina ensuring the continuation of a cycle violence that began in 1941 with Pavelic.
http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/pavelic.htm
Dr. Walter
New Member
Papal Support of Ustashi genocide
The creation of the Independent State of Croatia was initially welcomed by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and by many Catholic priests. Ante Pavelić, the head of the Ustaša, was anti-Serb and pro-Catholic, viewing Catholicism as an integral part of Croat culture.[1] Cornwell views the "ancient loyalties to the papacy going back thirteen hundred years" as one of the historical legacies that "underpinned the formation of the NDH" along with Catholic Croat resentment against Orthodox Serbs.[2]
For the Ustaša, "relations with the Vatican were as important as relations with Germany" because Vatican recognition was the key to widespread Croat support.[1] Ante Pavelić was received in a private papal audience in Rome in May 1941, just after becoming dictator of Croatia.[3] According to Phayer, "after receiving a papal blessing in 1941, Ante Pavelić and his Ustaša lieutenants unleashed an unspeakable genocide in their new country".[4] However, Pius XII refused to cut diplomatic ties with the Ustaša regime and met Pavelić again in 1943.[4] Pius XII was criticized for his reception of Pavelić: an unattributed British Foreign Office memo on the subject described Pius XII as "the greatest moral coward of our age."[5] For their part, the Vatican hoped the Ustaša would defeat Communism and reconvert many of the 200,000 who had left the Catholic Church for the Serbian Orthodox Church since World War I.[1]
It is well-known that many Catholic clergy members participated directly or indirectly in Ustaša campaigns of violence, as is attested to in the work of Corrado Zoli (Italian) and Evelyn Waugh (English).[10] The most notorious example is that of Franciscan Miroslav Filipović, known as "the devil of Jasenovac" for running the Jasenovac concentration camp, where estimates of the number killed range between 49,600 and 600,000.[6][9][11]
Ivan Šarić is believed to have been the "worst" of the Catholic bishops who supported the Ustaša; his diocesan newspaper wrote: "there is no limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement".[7] Bishop Šarić also appropriated Jewish property for his own use.[7]
Some Catholic priests even served in the personal bodyguard of Pavelić, including Ivan Guberina, a leader of the Croatian Catholic movement, a form of Catholic Action.[6] Another, Bozidas Bralo, was the chief of the security police in Sarajevo, who initiated many antisemitic actions.[6] In order to consolidate the Ustaša party power, much of the party work in Bosnia and Herzegovina Jure Francetić (an Ustaše Commissioner of this province), was put in the hands of Catholic priests.[12]
One Catholic priest, Mate Mugos wrote that clergy should put down the prayer book and take up the revolver.[6] Another, Dyonisy Juricev, wrote in the Novi list that to kill seven-year-olds was not a sin.[6]
Phayer argues that "establishing the fact of genocide in Croatia prior to the Holocaust carries great historical weight for our study because Catholics were the perpetrators and not, as in Poland, the victims".[13]
Forced conversions
As Pavelić's government cracked down on the Orthodox Serbs, along with the Jewish, Muslim, and Protestant Germanic minorities, the Catholic clergy took steps to encourage Orthodox Serbs to convert to Catholicism.[14] By July 14, 1941—"anticipating its selective conversion policy and eventual goal of genocide"—the Croatian Ministry of Justice instructed the Croatian episcopate that "priests or schoolmasters or, in a word, any of the intelligentsia—including rich Orthodox tradesmen and artisans" should not be admitted.[15] Those that were pre-rejected from the "coming program of enforced conversion" were deported and killed, although many that converted met the same fate.[16]
In addition, Catholic Croats appropriated many churches that were "vacated or requisitioned" from the Orthodox Serbs.[16] The Catholic episcopate and HKP, the Croatian branch of Catholic Action, a lay organization, were involved in the coordination and administration of these policies.[16]
1941 synod
Archbishop Stepinac called a synod of Croatian bishops in November 1941.[8] The synod appealed to Pavelić to treat Jews "as humanely as possible, considering that there were German troops in the country".[8] The Vatican replied with praise to Marcone with praise for what the synod had done for "citizens of Jewish origin", although Israeli historian Menachem Shelah demonstrates that the synod concerned itself only with converted Jews.[8] Pius XII personally praised the synod for "courage and decisiveness".[17] Shelach has written that,
A bishops' conference that met in Zagreb in November 1941 was not... prepared to denounce the forced conversion of Serbs that had taken place in the summer of 1941, let alone condemn the persecution and murder of Serbs and Jews. It was not until the middle of 1943 that Aloysius Stepinac, the archbishop of Zagreb, publicly came out against the murder of Croatian Jews (most of whom had been killed by that time) the Serbs, and other nationalities. In the early stage, the Croatian massacres were explained in Rome as "teething troubles of a new regime" (the expression of monsignor Domenico Tardini of the Vatican state secretariat.)[18]
Role of the Vatican
According to historian Michael Phayer, "it is impossible to believe that Stepinac and the Vatican did not know that the Ustasha murders amounted to genocide".[9] Cornwell considers the Catholic involvement important because of: "the Vatican's knowledge of the atrocities, Pacelli's failure to use his good offices to intervene, and the complicity it represented in the Final Solution being planned in northern Europe".[2]
Pius XII was a long-standing supported of Croat nationalism; he hosted a national pilgrimate to Rome in November 1939, for the cause of the canonization of Nicola Tavelic, and largely "confirmed the Ustashe perception of history".[14] In a meeting with Primate Stepinac, Pius XII reiterated the epithet of Pope Leo X, that the Croats were "the outpost of Christianity", a term which itself implied that the Orthodox Serbs were not Christians.[14] Pius XII foretold to Stepinac that:
"The hope of a better future seems to be smiling on you, a future in which the relations between Church and State in your country will be regulated in harmonious action to the advantage of both".[14]
Undersecretary of State Montini (future Pope Paul VI) was responsible for "day-to-day matters concerning Croatia and Poland".[17] He reported to Pius XII on a daily basis, and heard of the Ustaša atrocities in 1941.[17] In March 1942, Montini asked the Ustaša representative to the Vatican "Is it possible that these atrocities have taken place?", and responded that he would view such accusations with "considerable reserve" once the representative called them "lies and propaganda".[17] Montini's fellow Undersecretary Domenico Tardini told the Ustaša representative that the Vatican was willing to indulge the Ustaša regime because: "Croatia is a young state [...] Youngsters often err because of their age. It is therefore not surprising that Croatia also erred".[17]
Archbishop Stepinac was summoned to Rome in April 1942, where he delivered a nine-page document detailing various misdeeds of Pavelić.[9] This document described the atrocities as "anomalies" that were either unknown or unauthorized by Pavelić himself; it is omitted from the ADSS.[9] However, by 1942 the Vatican "preferred to have Stepinac try to rein the fascists in rather than risk the effect that a papal denunciation would have on the unstable Croatian state".[9]
According to Eugene Tisserant, the future Dean of the College of Cardinals, "we have the list of all clergymen who participated in these atrocities and we shall punish them at the right time to cleanse our conscience of the stain with which they spotted us".[20] Pius XII was well-informed of the involvement of Croatian Catholic clergy with the Ustaša regime, but decided against condemning the regime or even taking action against the involved clergy, who had "joined in the slaughter", fearing that it would lead to schism in the Croatian church or undermine the formation of a future Croatian state.[21]
Phayer contrasts the Vatican's "limited and sketchy" knowledge of the genocide in Poland with "the Croatian case, in which both the nuncio and the head of the church, Bishop Alojzje Stepinac, were in continuous contact with the Holy See while the genocide was being committed".[13] Cardinal Secretary of State Maglione instructed nuncio Marcone that "if your eminence can find a suitable occasion, he should recommend in a discreet manner, that would not be interpreted as an official appeal, that moderation be employed with regard to Jews on Croatian territory. Your Eminence should see to it that [...] the impression of loyal cooperation with the civil authorities be always preserved".[22] According to Phayer, the Vatican "preferred to bring diplomatic pressure on the Ushtasha government instead of challenging the fascists publicly on the immorality of genocide".[19]
Pavelić audience
Pavelić visited Rome on May 18, 1941 to sign a treaty with Mussolini granting Italy control over several Croatian cities and districts on the Dalmatian coast.[23] While in Rome, he was granted a "devotional" audience with Pius XII.[23] Cornwell views this act as "de facto recognition by the Holy See" of the Independent State of Croatia.[23] Soon afterwards, Abbot Ramiro Marcone was appointed apostolic legate to Zagreb.[23]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involvement_of_Croatian_Catholic_clergy_with_the_Ustaša_regime
The creation of the Independent State of Croatia was initially welcomed by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and by many Catholic priests. Ante Pavelić, the head of the Ustaša, was anti-Serb and pro-Catholic, viewing Catholicism as an integral part of Croat culture.[1] Cornwell views the "ancient loyalties to the papacy going back thirteen hundred years" as one of the historical legacies that "underpinned the formation of the NDH" along with Catholic Croat resentment against Orthodox Serbs.[2]
For the Ustaša, "relations with the Vatican were as important as relations with Germany" because Vatican recognition was the key to widespread Croat support.[1] Ante Pavelić was received in a private papal audience in Rome in May 1941, just after becoming dictator of Croatia.[3] According to Phayer, "after receiving a papal blessing in 1941, Ante Pavelić and his Ustaša lieutenants unleashed an unspeakable genocide in their new country".[4] However, Pius XII refused to cut diplomatic ties with the Ustaša regime and met Pavelić again in 1943.[4] Pius XII was criticized for his reception of Pavelić: an unattributed British Foreign Office memo on the subject described Pius XII as "the greatest moral coward of our age."[5] For their part, the Vatican hoped the Ustaša would defeat Communism and reconvert many of the 200,000 who had left the Catholic Church for the Serbian Orthodox Church since World War I.[1]
It is well-known that many Catholic clergy members participated directly or indirectly in Ustaša campaigns of violence, as is attested to in the work of Corrado Zoli (Italian) and Evelyn Waugh (English).[10] The most notorious example is that of Franciscan Miroslav Filipović, known as "the devil of Jasenovac" for running the Jasenovac concentration camp, where estimates of the number killed range between 49,600 and 600,000.[6][9][11]
Ivan Šarić is believed to have been the "worst" of the Catholic bishops who supported the Ustaša; his diocesan newspaper wrote: "there is no limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement".[7] Bishop Šarić also appropriated Jewish property for his own use.[7]
Some Catholic priests even served in the personal bodyguard of Pavelić, including Ivan Guberina, a leader of the Croatian Catholic movement, a form of Catholic Action.[6] Another, Bozidas Bralo, was the chief of the security police in Sarajevo, who initiated many antisemitic actions.[6] In order to consolidate the Ustaša party power, much of the party work in Bosnia and Herzegovina Jure Francetić (an Ustaše Commissioner of this province), was put in the hands of Catholic priests.[12]
One Catholic priest, Mate Mugos wrote that clergy should put down the prayer book and take up the revolver.[6] Another, Dyonisy Juricev, wrote in the Novi list that to kill seven-year-olds was not a sin.[6]
Phayer argues that "establishing the fact of genocide in Croatia prior to the Holocaust carries great historical weight for our study because Catholics were the perpetrators and not, as in Poland, the victims".[13]
Forced conversions
As Pavelić's government cracked down on the Orthodox Serbs, along with the Jewish, Muslim, and Protestant Germanic minorities, the Catholic clergy took steps to encourage Orthodox Serbs to convert to Catholicism.[14] By July 14, 1941—"anticipating its selective conversion policy and eventual goal of genocide"—the Croatian Ministry of Justice instructed the Croatian episcopate that "priests or schoolmasters or, in a word, any of the intelligentsia—including rich Orthodox tradesmen and artisans" should not be admitted.[15] Those that were pre-rejected from the "coming program of enforced conversion" were deported and killed, although many that converted met the same fate.[16]
In addition, Catholic Croats appropriated many churches that were "vacated or requisitioned" from the Orthodox Serbs.[16] The Catholic episcopate and HKP, the Croatian branch of Catholic Action, a lay organization, were involved in the coordination and administration of these policies.[16]
1941 synod
Archbishop Stepinac called a synod of Croatian bishops in November 1941.[8] The synod appealed to Pavelić to treat Jews "as humanely as possible, considering that there were German troops in the country".[8] The Vatican replied with praise to Marcone with praise for what the synod had done for "citizens of Jewish origin", although Israeli historian Menachem Shelah demonstrates that the synod concerned itself only with converted Jews.[8] Pius XII personally praised the synod for "courage and decisiveness".[17] Shelach has written that,
A bishops' conference that met in Zagreb in November 1941 was not... prepared to denounce the forced conversion of Serbs that had taken place in the summer of 1941, let alone condemn the persecution and murder of Serbs and Jews. It was not until the middle of 1943 that Aloysius Stepinac, the archbishop of Zagreb, publicly came out against the murder of Croatian Jews (most of whom had been killed by that time) the Serbs, and other nationalities. In the early stage, the Croatian massacres were explained in Rome as "teething troubles of a new regime" (the expression of monsignor Domenico Tardini of the Vatican state secretariat.)[18]
Role of the Vatican
According to historian Michael Phayer, "it is impossible to believe that Stepinac and the Vatican did not know that the Ustasha murders amounted to genocide".[9] Cornwell considers the Catholic involvement important because of: "the Vatican's knowledge of the atrocities, Pacelli's failure to use his good offices to intervene, and the complicity it represented in the Final Solution being planned in northern Europe".[2]
Pius XII was a long-standing supported of Croat nationalism; he hosted a national pilgrimate to Rome in November 1939, for the cause of the canonization of Nicola Tavelic, and largely "confirmed the Ustashe perception of history".[14] In a meeting with Primate Stepinac, Pius XII reiterated the epithet of Pope Leo X, that the Croats were "the outpost of Christianity", a term which itself implied that the Orthodox Serbs were not Christians.[14] Pius XII foretold to Stepinac that:
"The hope of a better future seems to be smiling on you, a future in which the relations between Church and State in your country will be regulated in harmonious action to the advantage of both".[14]
Undersecretary of State Montini (future Pope Paul VI) was responsible for "day-to-day matters concerning Croatia and Poland".[17] He reported to Pius XII on a daily basis, and heard of the Ustaša atrocities in 1941.[17] In March 1942, Montini asked the Ustaša representative to the Vatican "Is it possible that these atrocities have taken place?", and responded that he would view such accusations with "considerable reserve" once the representative called them "lies and propaganda".[17] Montini's fellow Undersecretary Domenico Tardini told the Ustaša representative that the Vatican was willing to indulge the Ustaša regime because: "Croatia is a young state [...] Youngsters often err because of their age. It is therefore not surprising that Croatia also erred".[17]
Archbishop Stepinac was summoned to Rome in April 1942, where he delivered a nine-page document detailing various misdeeds of Pavelić.[9] This document described the atrocities as "anomalies" that were either unknown or unauthorized by Pavelić himself; it is omitted from the ADSS.[9] However, by 1942 the Vatican "preferred to have Stepinac try to rein the fascists in rather than risk the effect that a papal denunciation would have on the unstable Croatian state".[9]
According to Eugene Tisserant, the future Dean of the College of Cardinals, "we have the list of all clergymen who participated in these atrocities and we shall punish them at the right time to cleanse our conscience of the stain with which they spotted us".[20] Pius XII was well-informed of the involvement of Croatian Catholic clergy with the Ustaša regime, but decided against condemning the regime or even taking action against the involved clergy, who had "joined in the slaughter", fearing that it would lead to schism in the Croatian church or undermine the formation of a future Croatian state.[21]
Phayer contrasts the Vatican's "limited and sketchy" knowledge of the genocide in Poland with "the Croatian case, in which both the nuncio and the head of the church, Bishop Alojzje Stepinac, were in continuous contact with the Holy See while the genocide was being committed".[13] Cardinal Secretary of State Maglione instructed nuncio Marcone that "if your eminence can find a suitable occasion, he should recommend in a discreet manner, that would not be interpreted as an official appeal, that moderation be employed with regard to Jews on Croatian territory. Your Eminence should see to it that [...] the impression of loyal cooperation with the civil authorities be always preserved".[22] According to Phayer, the Vatican "preferred to bring diplomatic pressure on the Ushtasha government instead of challenging the fascists publicly on the immorality of genocide".[19]
Pavelić audience
Pavelić visited Rome on May 18, 1941 to sign a treaty with Mussolini granting Italy control over several Croatian cities and districts on the Dalmatian coast.[23] While in Rome, he was granted a "devotional" audience with Pius XII.[23] Cornwell views this act as "de facto recognition by the Holy See" of the Independent State of Croatia.[23] Soon afterwards, Abbot Ramiro Marcone was appointed apostolic legate to Zagreb.[23]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involvement_of_Croatian_Catholic_clergy_with_the_Ustaša_regime
The following comes from another brother in Christ on the BB: "Note18% of Polish Catholic clergy were killed by the Nazi's, Father Maximilian Kolbe died in a concentration camp as a substitute for a Jewish prisoner....etc. The Germans in WW2 wished to eradicate the Poles totally & used their Catholicism as an excuse to exterminate them & steal their lands."
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
There is nothing in the article that shows the Catholic Church enforcing its will on the populace. Its standing by its discision to prevent the illicit spread of condom use. In Fact, its only way of pressuring the government is by demonstrating. How is that any different from evangelicals demonstrating against giving out of condoms in elementary public schools? There is no real issue here.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Again you have your historical facts wrong.
Note the dates that the tribunal was actually set up 1560. Xavier left India in 1552 and died latter that same year. So you have portugese soldiers acting out and you actually have the inquisition tribunal held 8 years after his death. So there are some serious falacies with your view of history here.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Truman shook hands with stalin hand has his picture with him. Does that mean he supported the USSR? If you read anything about Hitler you will find he also persecuted Catholics. There were a few Catholics that supported him but not the Entire Church in fact the Church saved many Jews in the Vatican during WWII. Hitler's SS were into paganism and held to the theory that Arians were supperior aliens and often refered to fantasy novels of the 1800's. Just because he like the Jesuit's internal structure means nothing. I respect military prowess of the german war machine. But I would never support it.
Alot of the good "doctor's" stuff is straight from Jack Chick. :laugh:
What is the point in debating against delusion?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Its not really about debate but truth. Look, I don't mind people not liking the Catholic Church but please do it for real reasons not invented ones. Or forwarding propaganda that is centuries old.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
certainly we believe that if the world can buy into christian morals that it would be a better place.
In this article the content of the RH bill is given:
The RCC have their "facts" wrong. It is only opinion. Contraceptives and protection has a proven record in controlling the spread of STD's and in particular AIDS, not the avoidance of them, as the RCC claim. On this issue they are dead wrong.
Look up the history of JFK, the only Catholic President the U.S, has ever had. He is reported to have affairs with Marilyn Monroe, and three other women. (The Catholic Bishops of America said nothing). He was heavily involved in the family liquor business which devastates the lives of families all across America. The Catholic Bishops of America said nothing.
Prohibition ended in 1933. His father amassed a great fortune when he consolidated two liquor companies, traveled to Scotland to buy the distribution rights of another liquor company, and continued to amass great wealth through liquor importation and the sale thereof. Still no opposition from the RCC.
Banking, real estate, movie production, were other enterprises that Kennedy was involved in instead of concentrating his energy on running the affairs of the nation.
Not once, in all the immoral activities of JFK did the RCC raise the threat of excommunication.
It is to the great dignity, honor, and common sense of the American people that they saw fit, that in all of their history, only once did they stoop to elect a Catholic to be president of their nation.
Now back to the Philippines.
We have a President who, for the good of the nation is trying to enact a law. The RH law will provide a certain degree of health care for the good of the people. It will cut down on the spread of AIDS rampant in that nation. The Catholic Bishops are against this bill. If Aquino, the President, continues to press this issue, and pass this bill he will be excommunicated from the RCC. They are threatening him with excommunication from the church because he is passing a bill which he believes is good for the health of the nation. Is that the moral and political right of the RCC? Does the RCC have the legitimate right to control the President in that way? No. It is evil and it is wrong. If you can’t see that there is something wrong.
The Catholic Church never said one thing about the terrible indiscretions of JFK. They never interfered. And they should not. There is a separation of church and state.
Why isn’t there a separation of church and state in the Philippines? Why do the Catholic Bishops threaten to run the country by their Taliban ways—Do what I say or face the consequences???