Are Baptists Protestants?

[Rippon]

Leon McBeth:The Baptist Heritage

"Are Baptists Protestants?...Yes. Such important Reformation doctrines as justification by faith,the authority of Scripture,and the priesthood of believers show up prominently in Baptist theology.Further, the evidence shows that Baptists originated out of English Separatism,certainly a part of the Protestant Reformation...The tendency to deny that Baptists are Protestants grows out of a faulty view of history,namely that Baptist churches have existed in every century and thus antedate the Reformation." (1987,page 62)

 

[Rippon]

W.Morgan Patterson:The Truth about Conventonism

"Baptists arose from the Separtists in England..most scholars have concluded that Baptists have not been Donatists,Paulicians,Waldenses,Albigenses,Anabaptists,or a half dozen other groups. It is only after 1610 that one finds an unbroken succession of what came to be known as Baptist churches. Furthermore,only from about 1641 have Baptist doctrine and practice been the same in all essential features that tey are today. It was in the latter year that immersion as a scriptural mode of baptism was recogognized among them." (p.122)

 

[Rippon]

Nathan Finn:Baptists And The Reformation

Just some snips from Dr. Finn's article follows.

"Baptists are Protestants. I know there are some Baptists out there who don't believe we are Protestants,but the rejection of this truth betrays a bapto-centric bias and ignores history.

The first Baptists were in fact Separtists who adopted confessor's baptism. And by the 1640s,the mode of this baptism reflected the New Testament practice of full immersion.

So Baptists are Protestants.To be specific,we are third generation Protestants who in many ways represent an attempt to reform the Reformation. In the Baptist movement,the very best of the magisterial understanding of Scripture was combined with the very best of the Free Church understanding of the church and discipline. The result was a new movement that represented a further reformation among some of the Reformed churches in England.

I'm thankful for the Protestant heritage we Baptists enjoy.

And as good Protestants,we ultimately stand where we stand, not because others stand there as well,but because we believe the Spirit still speaks through His Word to guide Christ's people on the narrow way."

Dr. Finn is an Associate Professor of Historical Theology and Baptist Studies at Southeastern.

 

[Rippon]

James E.McGoldrick

"Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history...surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable...Baptists arose in the seventeenth century in Holland and
England. They are Protestants,heirs of the Reformers." (Baptist Successionism:A Crucial Question in Baptist History,1994 --pages 1,2)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history...surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable...Baptists arose in the seventeenth century in Holland and
England. They are Protestants,heirs of the Reformers." (Baptist Successionism:A Crucial Question in Baptist History,1994 --pages 1,2)

Keep telling yourself that.:smilewinkgrin: As for me, no way am I connected to those stinking Catholics.God forbid!!! See, I can play too. :tongue3:

 

[Rippon]

Keep telling yourself that.:smilewinkgrin: As for me, no way am I connected to those stinking Catholics.God forbid!!! See, I can play too. :tongue3:

Well enjoy your cherished sentiments. Actual Church History is a wakeup call. As for any Roman Catholic connection --Baptists (at least the Particular side) came from the Puritan/Separatist/Independent factions --which had split off from the Church of England.

A question for you EWF,do you think a congrgation should be called "Baptist" if they don't practise full immersion? From what I have gleaned the first believer's baptism with immersion happened in Jan. of 1642 in the Thames River....Yes,very cold! Those were Particular Baptists.

The General Baptists didn't even mention,much less practise, full immersion until a blurb appeared in their 1660 Confession of Faith.

 

[kyredneck]

I read 'The Anabaptist Story' when it first came out many years ago, and a couple things glared out to me; all the main AB leaders presented in the book came out of the RCC, and, the mode of baptism was not the issue, believer's baptism was the issue.

The book records how on one night Hubmaier baptized over 300 people from a 'milk bucket'. Another more modern day 'Baptist' account of the same event that I read some years later blatantly changed that to read that Hubmaier 'immersed' over 300 people in one night.

The bias runs deep.

 

[Rippon]

I read 'The Anabaptist Story' when it first came out many years ago, and a couple things glared out to me; all the main AB leaders presented in the book came out of the RCC, and, the mode of baptism was not the issue, believer's baptism was the issue.

The book records how on one night Hubmaier baptized over 300 people from a 'milk bucket'. Another more modern day 'Baptist' account of the same event that I read some years later blatantly changed that to read that Hubmaier 'immersed' over 300 people in one night.

The bias runs deep.

I respect Balthaser Hubmaier (1480-1528) more than any other Anabaptist. He was grounded in the Scriptures rather well. At first he took the wind out of the sails of Zwingli and others,because they could not refute his scriptural knowledge of the subject.But regardless,though he was not heeded --he was a godly man. He and his wife died horrible deaths. Very cruel.

However,Hubmaier was not your typical Anabaptist --many were quite heterdox and unruly --to say the least.

 

[kyredneck]

....and Sattler went to his death praising the Lord even after they had cut his tongue out.

 

[Rippon]

....and Sattler went to his death praising the Lord even after they had cut his tongue out.

Yes,there more than a mere handful of notables. And lot more without famous names.I didn't mean to uggest that Hubmaier was the only one that I respect. But he is the singular man that I admire among them the most.

 

[Jerome]

From what I have gleaned the first believer's baptism with immersion happened in Jan. of 1642 in the Thames River....Yes,very cold! Those were Particular Baptists.

The General Baptists didn't even mention,much less practise, full immersion until a blurb appeared in their 1660 Confession of Faith.

Huh?

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography:

"Barber, Edward (d. 1663), General Baptist preacher, was a son of William Barber (d. in or before 1611), yeoman of Sherborne, Somerset. In July 1611 he was apprenticed in London's Merchant Taylors' Company and gained his freedom in August 1620. Barber set up trade as a cloth drawer and by 1624 had married Mary (d. 1682) and was living in the London parish of St Benet Fink, where he resided for the remainder of his life. A number of his children were baptized in the parish and by his own account he was a conforming member of the established church for many years. However, in 1637 Barber and his wife were excommunicated from St Benet Fink, having been identified as Baptists.

In June 1639 Barber was summoned before the court of high commission for denying that infant baptism and the payment of tithes were God's ordinance. For this and his refusal to take the ex officio oath he was imprisoned in Newgate for eleven months. In 1641 the first of Barber's nine works was published, a petition, To the Kings most Excellent Majesty, and the Honourable Court of Parliament. This advanced the central principle of Barber's writing, namely a belief in religious liberty for all individuals on the grounds that only God had authority to judge in matters of faith. This, combined with the doctrine that God had endowed all men with the capacity for salvation, made any form of religious coercion abhorrent. Such views were typical of his sect, but Barber's second tract was far more original in its content. A Small Treatise of Baptisme or Dipping, published in late 1641, was the first work in England during the seventeenth century that favoured immersion as a form of baptism."

 

[Rippon]

Jerome,Dr.Jim Renihan has a lecture that I listened to yesterday called :"Origin of Reformed Baptists. He recorded it on 10/14/01.

In it he claims that the earliest public baptism by Calvinistic adult believers by immersion was done in the month of Jan. 1642 --at the River Thaames.

He and Michael Haykin are well-known Church Historians --with an emphasis on Baptist history.

I am not dismissing your info. I'm just sayin' . But I will look into it.

 

[ktn4eg]

FWIW, I personally believe that simply because a person was referred to by someone living in the first part of the sixteenth century (i.e., the early 1500's) as being an "Anabaptist" does NOT necessary mean that this person was, in fact, actually an "Anabaptist" in the sense that he/she either practiced (or at least submitted to) a form of "re-baptism" (That is really what the term "Anabaptist" means [i.e., someone who is "re{"ana"} - "baptized"].)

A case in point was that the leaders of the so-called "Muenster Rebellion" of the 1530's in what is now the country of Germany were sometimes referred to as "Anabaptists."

Whether in reality these leaders of that uprising were actually what we would today refer to as "Anabaptists" is still a matter of dispute in some circles.

What I am trying to point out is that the term "Anabaptist" (at least in those days) was merely a term of derision that was employed by any speaker or writer who happened to disagree with the person about which he/she was referring, regardless of that person's belief about baptism (or any other position, be it religious, or political, or "whatever").

To give a more current example of what I am trying to point out would be the use of the term "communist" back in the days of the Cold War in the last half of the 1900's.

Many times a person would call someone else that he or she might disagree with on some particular issue (regardless of what that issue might be) as being a "communist," even if he or she was not, in reality, a communist.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Do you believe that Baptists came to be via the Reformation or do you hold to the view that there has been a line of Baptist people all the way back to John the Baptist or do you hold some other view point?

Please support your position with some historical evidence.

When you say "via the Reformation", do you have a date in mind?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

... do you hold to the view that there has been a line of Baptist people all the way back to John the Baptist or do you hold some other view point?

Yes.

Please support your position with some historical evidence.

You'll find it right here. Any questions?

 

[Rippon]

TND,you can't answer a two-pronged question with a simple "Yes."

Luke asked :"Do you hold to the view that there has been a line of Baptist people all the way back to John the Baptist,or do you hold some other viewpoint?"

If you think that there has indeed been a line of Baptists extending all the way back to John the Baptist you may answer yes. But what about the second option --"or some other view?" If you hold some other view then the answer to the first part of the two-parter would be :No."

Please clarify.

The Novatains to the Reformation? No,there is no definitive proof that that group had any continuity through the years. Why grap onto straws?

In the 17th century Baptists came into being. We can trace things from that point --but not to the murky Middle Ages.

 

[Bro. James]

No evidence???

Evidence is in the "History of the Inquisitions" and other writings in the Vatican. History is written by the victorious. Exploits of the Jesuits is another good read. Look for the ones who refused to baptize their infants and other heretics.

Jesus said He would never leave nor forsake His Bride. He has kept His promise.

Keep an open mind.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Rippon]

Leon McBeth :The Baptist Heritage

"Are Baptists Protestants?...Yes. Such important Reformation doctrines as justification by faith,the authority of Scripture,and the priesthood of believers show up prominently in Baptist theology.Further, the evidence shows that Baptists originated out of English Separatism,certainly a part of the Protestant Reformation...The tendency to deny that Baptists are Protestants grows out of a faulty view of history,namely that Baptist churches have existed in every century and thus antedate the Reformation." (1987,page 62)

For review.

 

[Rippon]

W. Morgan Patterson : The Truth About Conventionism

"Baptists arose from the Separtists in England..most scholars have concluded that Baptists have not been Donatists,Paulicians,Waldenses,Albigenses,Anabaptists,or a half dozen other groups. It is only after 1610 that one finds an unbroken succession of what came to be known as Baptist churches. Furthermore,only from about 1641 have Baptist doctrine and practice been the same in all essential features that tey are today. It was in the latter year that immersion as a scriptural mode of baptism was recogognized among them." (p.122)

Think about it.

 

[Rippon]

Nathan Finn: Baptists And The Reformation

Just some snips from Dr. Finn's article follows.

"Baptists are Protestants. I know there are some Baptists out there who don't believe we are Protestants,but the rejection of this truth betrays a bapto-centric bias and ignores history.

The first Baptists were in fact Separtists who adopted confessor's baptism. And by the 1640s,the mode of this baptism reflected the New Testament practice of full immersion.

So Baptists are Protestants.To be specific,we are third generation Protestants who in many ways represent an attempt to reform the Reformation. In the Baptist movement,the very best of the magisterial understanding of Scripture was combined with the very best of the Free Church understanding of the church and discipline. The result was a new movement that represented a further reformation among some of the Reformed churches in England.

I'm thankful for the Protestant heritage we Baptists enjoy.

And as good Protestants,we ultimately stand where we stand, not because others stand there as well,but because we believe the Spirit still speaks through His Word to guide Christ's people on the narrow way."

Dr. Finn is an Associate Professor of Historical Theology and Baptist Studies at Southeastern.

Good stuff;huh?