Faith, where does it come "in" when someone is saved?

[webdog]

No it is not closed- and certainly, once again, not just because you say so. Terms have meanings. I am disappointed in you, Webdog. Terms have meanings- no one should argue with that.

Look these terms up in Strong's for goodness' sake and you will see they each mean their own thing.

You are the one who needs to abuse terms and make them synonyms to prop up your theology. Let the terms stand as they are and you will become a Calvinist.

Terms have meanings, Webdog. They have meanings. You don't get to redefine them all as synonyms. Everybody knows that.

Like I said, nothing about the "meanings" runs contrary to what it is describing like my "being full" analogy. Each one of those phrases has a different meaning, but all describe the same thing.

If the case is not closed...answer the last 3 questions I presented then.

 

[webdog]

If I say my car is the color of grass, the mixed color blue and yellow make, or the color green...each phrase has a different "meaning" but they all describe the same color of my car...they are synonymous.

 

[Luke2427]

Like I said, nothing about the "meanings" runs contrary to what it is describing like my "being full" analogy. Each one of those phrases has a different meaning, but all describe the same thing.

If the case is not closed...answer the last 3 questions I presented then.

No. Your questions are irrelevant. Just because things share some common characteristics does not mean they are synonyms.

A rock and a piece of steel are both hard. They are not synonyms. All your questions do is prove that some of these terms have similar characteristics.

Surely you know what a synonym is, Webdog.

 

[percho]

1. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2. Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Being there can only be one way for us to be saved which words or phrases in verse 1 mean the same as the words or phrases in verse 2.

 

[Luke2427]

1. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2. Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Being there can only be one way for us to be saved which words or phrases in verse 1 mean the same as the words or phrases in verse 2.

??????????

 

[webdog]

I know what a synonym is, that's why I used the word as it fits.
Synonym - A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another.

You say my questions are irrelevant. Humor me then. Can a regenerated person, a saved person or a justified person perish? Can any of these three NOT be in Christ?

 

[Luke2427]

I know what a synonym is, that's why I used the word as it fits.
Synonym - A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another.

You say my questions are irrelevant. Humor me then. Can a regenerated person, a saved person or a justified person perish? Can any of these three NOT be in Christ?

I will not humor you because your questions are irrelevant. Make your point if you wish, but I will not answer irrelevant questions. That would be silly of me.

Regeneration and repentance are not the same thing- period. Everybody knows that.

Repentance and justification are not the same thing- period. Everybody knows that.

And regeneration and salvation are not the same thing- period. Everybody should know that.

 

[webdog]

I made my point, and your failure to answer such simple questions drives it home even further. (When did "repentance" come into play? When did I ever bring that term in?)

Apparently you are the one who does not know what a synonym is.

To quote you, just saying they are not the same does not make it so.

 

[jbh28]

Who cares if they have different definitions, they are still part of the same event. Justification, salvation, regeneration are all synonymous and are interchangeable. Whether I say I ate a lot, I'm full or I'm no longer hungry...they all describe the same event. Salvation is new life and is also being found not guilty in God's eye.

They are referring to different parts of one event...then I would agree. But that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Pitching and hitting and catching are all part of the same event(baseball) but they are not the same thing. Justification is being justified. our sin penalty being removed.("not guilty in Gods eye" as you put it) Salvation refers to the whole process (justification, sanctification and glorification). Justification happens at the moment of first belief. Sanctification starts then for the remainder of your life. Glorification will happen later. All three distinct parts of the whole of salvation. they are not the same thing. Regeneration is being made alive(Ephesians 2). Part of salvation but not the same thing. The words mean different parts of the whole of salvation.

 

[webdog]

They are referring to different parts of one event...then I would agree. But that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Pitching and hitting and catching are all part of the same event(baseball) but they are not the same thing. Justification is being justified. our sin penalty being removed.("not guilty in Gods eye" as you put it) Salvation refers to the whole process (justification, sanctification and glorification). Justification happens at the moment of first belief. Sanctification starts then for the remainder of your life. Glorification will happen later. All three distinct parts of the whole of salvation. they are not the same thing. Regeneration is being made alive(Ephesians 2). Part of salvation but not the same thing. The words mean different parts of the whole of salvation.

I understand what you are saying, but they are all the same thing. If I told you I was born again, you would know I was saved. If I told you I have been justified by Christ's blood, you would know I was saved. If I told you I was saved by grace through faith, you would know I was justified and born again. They are synonymous.

 

[Luke2427]

I made my point, and your failure to answer such simple questions drives it home even further. (When did "repentance" come into play? When did I ever bring that term in?)

Apparently you are the one who does not know what a synonym is.

To quote you, just saying they are not the same does not make it so.

No, that's not true. You have made no point in all of this.

 

[Luke2427]

I understand what you are saying, but they are all the same thing. If I told you I was born again, you would know I was saved. If I told you I have been justified by Christ's blood, you would know I was saved. If I told you I was saved by grace through faith, you would know I was justified and born again. They are synonymous.

All of that is true except for the last phrase- they are NOT synonyms. NOt on any day of the week- not even on Leap Year.

NOBODY of any reputation believes they are. Why you do is beyond me.

 

[webdog]

No, that's not true. You have made no point in all of this.

Luke man, remove the veil! If I told you I was in Christ and according to Scripture I would live eternally, you would HAVE to understand that I was born again, saved by grace through faith and justified! You cannot be any one of those without the others! That's Bible 101! You cannot be born again...and not in Christ. You cannot be justified...and not be in Christ. You cannot be saved by grace through faith...and not be in Christ. You cannot be born again...and not have eternal life. You cannot be justified...and not have eternal life. You cannot be saved by grace through faith...and not have eternal life.

 

[webdog]

All of that is true except for the last phrase- they are NOT synonyms. NOt on any day of the week- not even on Leap Year.

NOBODY of any reputation believes they are. Why you do is beyond me.

I quote the very definition of the word...and you STILL deny it. Unreal. Here it is again...

Synonym - A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another

 

[jbh28]

I understand what you are saying, but they are all the same thing. If I told you I was born again, you would know I was saved. If I told you I have been justified by Christ's blood, you would know I was saved. If I told you I was saved by grace through faith, you would know I was justified and born again. They are synonymous.

No, you are misusing the term synonymous. Synonymous means they have the same definitions. I know you are saved if you said you were born again because they all happen together, not that they mean the same. Justification doesn't mean no life. Regeneration doesn't mean you are free from your sin debt. They happen together. They are not synonymous(having the same definition) but they coincide with each other. Separate events happening all at the same time.

The pitcher is pitching the ball at the same time the batter is watching the pitcher pitch the ball. Two different events happening at the same time.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke man, remove the veil! If I told you I was in Christ and according to Scripture I would live eternally, you would HAVE to understand that I was born again, saved by grace through faith and justified! You cannot be any one of those without the others! That's Bible 101! You cannot be born again...and not in Christ. You cannot be justified...and not be in Christ. You cannot be saved by grace through faith...and not be in Christ. You cannot be born again...and not have eternal life. You cannot be justified...and not have eternal life. You cannot be saved by grace through faith...and not have eternal life.

So what?? Who doubts that? But it does not mean that faith and justification are the same thing or that salvation and grace are the same thing, etc, etc, etc...

And what veil are you talking about??

 

[Luke2427]

I quote the very definition of the word...and you STILL deny it. Unreal. Here it is again...

Synonym - A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another

They do not have nearly the same meaning as J has proven to you.

 

[webdog]

No, you are misusing the term synonymous. Synonymous means they have the same definitions. I know you are saved if you said you were born again because they all happen together, not that they mean the same. Justification doesn't mean no life. Regeneration doesn't mean you are free from your sin debt. They happen together. They are not synonymous(having the same definition) but they coincide with each other. Separate events happening all at the same time.

The pitcher is pitching the ball at the same time the batter is watching the pitcher pitch the ball. Two different events happening at the same time.

Synonymous does not mean "same definitions". Above is the definition of synonymous...same meanings or perceived meanings, not same definitions.

If you are justified, you have life. If you are regenerated, you are free from your sin debt.

 

[webdog]

They do not have nearly the same meaning as J has proven to you.

J was talking about definitions which is not the subject of discussion nor what defines a synonym.

 

[Luke2427]

Synonymous does not mean "same definitions". Above is the definition of synonymous...same meanings or perceived meanings, not same definitions.

You may as well drop it. Nobody is going to agree with you that these terms, though related, are synonyms- nobody.

Regeneration is life.

Salvation is deliverance.

Not synonyms. Not even "nearly the same meaning".


Move on- it makes no sense to keep on this path.