Can Unregenerate Man "Do" any Righteous Thing?

[The Archangel]

If God says it is right to feed the poor (or any deed He declares right and good), then, yes, it is righteous in God's eyes no matter if it is a believer or unregenerate man performing the act. Doesn't mean it will save either one.

I think you're missing something. If we learn anything from the Gospels, it is that heart condition of the person doing the action means as much, if not more, than the action itself.

So, the act itself is not necessarily a righteous act. If one feeds the poor (even though we are, in fact, commanded to do so) and yet feeds the poor out of a desire to make his own name great, there is nothing in his actions that will be viewed as righteous.

I think the Puritans had it right when they said even our most righteous works are shot-through with sin.

Might we do "good" works? Sure...in man's estimation. But I don't think it is quite as easy to have those "good" works be righteous in God's eyes.

The Archangel

 

[Luke2427]

If God says it is right to feed the poor (or any deed He declares right and good), then, yes, it is righteous in God's eyes no matter if it is a believer or unregenerate man performing the act. Doesn't mean it will save either one.

No, not if the motive is corrupt.

If a man feeds the poor in his country so that he can get elected to office so that he can embark on a terrible holocaust and kill millions of people, is the deed of feeding the poor GOOD?

Motive is the ONLY thing that determines if something is good or not.

NO unregenerate person does ANYTHING for the proper motive- that God might be glorified.


Jesus said it clearly, "A corrupt tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit."

Paul said, "I know that in me, that is in my flesh dwelleth NO GOOD thing."

He said, "There is NONE that doeth good- no not ONE"

Proverbs 21:4 says that even, "the PLOWING of the wicked is sin". Plowing is in and of itself a noble endeavor designed to industriously provide for one's own- but if the wicked does this noble deed it is SIN.

No, the Bible is abundantly clear- the unregenerate can do NO GOOD.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus said the evil can give "good" gifts.

And does it make sense that a person who already has the Holy Spirit would need to ask for him?

The gift is good, the giving of it is evil.

That is what a man plowing is doing. He is giving good gifts to his children. That plowing will eventually produce food which is a good gift for one's children.

But Proverbs 21:4 is clear- "...the plowing of the wicked is sin..."

You need to understand the difference between the quality of the gift and the quality of the giving. They are two VASTLY different things.

If I give you a thousand dollars so that you will meet me somewhere- that thousand dollars is a good gift. But if I plan to beat the dog snot out of you when I meet you- well the gift was good, the giving of the gift was evil.

 

[Winman]

2 Chron 19:2-3

And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.

NEVERTHELESS THERE ARE GOOD THINGS FOUND IN THEE, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and thou hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

The wrath of God was upon king Jehoshaphat, yet the LORD found good things in him.

 

[Luke2427]

I am sure many will disagree, but when the scriptures say there is none righteous, or none that doeth good that it is speaking of being 100% without sin. It is not saying that man cannot do some good things.

For example, God said that if Cain did "well" it would be accepted. I cannot imagine that God would accept evil. And we know Cain was not at this time or ever regenerate.

Yes, if Cain did well it would have been accepted. The fact is that he did NOT do well.

No unregenerate soul CAN. The Bible is VERY clear on this.

You also have Jesus saying men who are evil can give "good" gifts. Now, Jesus himself chose to use the word "good".

The gift is good- not the giver and not the giving.

I can give you the best of gifts with the WORST of intentions.

If it is impossible for unregenerate man to do any good thing whatsoever, it is hard to understand why he would use this word.

It is even harder to understand why he would say THERE IS NONE THAT DOETH GOOD- NO NOT ONE- if he really meant that all kinds of people do good stuff all the time.

C'mon Winman. The Bible is clear. You are just trying to twist the Scriptures to support your man made theological ideas.

Jesus also said sinners do good to those who do good to them, again using the word "good". How is this possible if sinners can do no good thing?

He did not say that. That is a deliberate misrepresentation of what Jesus said. You'd do well to go back to painting verses red and blue if you are now going to totally misrepresent them.

So, I have never understood the commonly quoted verses in Romans as meaning man cannot do some good things, I understood it to be speaking of being 100% righteous, without sin altogether.

The PLOWING of the wicked is sin.

A corrupt tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit.

Titus 1:15- To the pure all things are pure but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is NOTHING PURE..."

Paul said, "In my flesh dwelleth NO GOOD thing..."

 

[Luke2427]

2 Chron 19:2-3

And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.

NEVERTHELESS THERE ARE GOOD THINGS FOUND IN THEE, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and thou hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

The wrath of God was upon king Jehoshaphat, yet the LORD found good things in him.

That's pitiful.

You ought to be intimidated by me if that is the best you can do.

Jehoshaphat WAS a righteous king.

 

[Winman]

Then how was God's wrath upon him?

 

[Luke2427]

Then how was God's wrath upon him?

Respond line by line to post 25 and I'll answer that.

 

[Winman]

Yes, if Cain did well it would have been accepted. The fact is that he did NOT do well.

No unregenerate soul CAN. The Bible is VERY clear on this.



The gift is good- not the giver and not the giving.

I can give you the best of gifts with the WORST of intentions.


It is even harder to understand why he would say THERE IS NONE THAT DOETH GOOD- NO NOT ONE- if he really meant that all kinds of people do good stuff all the time.

C'mon Winman. The Bible is clear. You are just trying to twist the Scriptures to support your man made theological ideas.




He did not say that. That is a deliberate misrepresentation of what Jesus said. You'd do well to go back to painting verses red and blue if you are now going to totally misrepresent them.



The PLOWING of the wicked is sin.

A corrupt tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit.

Titus 1:15- To the pure all things are pure but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is NOTHING PURE..."

Paul said, "In my flesh dwelleth NO GOOD thing..."

This is your most foolish argument yet. A gift has no moral qualities, money is neither good or evil. Only living beings can be good or evil.

Is this the kind of nonsense you teach in church?

 

[Winman]

By the way, it says the plowing of the WICKED. It does not say the plowing of everyone.

 

[Luke2427]

By the way, it says the plowing of the WICKED. It does not say the plowing of everyone.

everyone is wicked winman.

And you did not respond line by line.

 

[Winman]

everyone is wicked winman.

And you did not respond line by line.

There was no need, I showed your argument false from the first point. Neither money or any unliving object has the ability to do or be good or evil. To say so is nonsense.

No, a good gift means the giver performed a good work.

And while all are sinners, when God says "the wicked" he is not necessarily speaking of all sinners. When God says the "fool" hath said in his heart there is no God, this cannot be speaking of all sinners. Many unregenerate sinners believe there is a God.

 

[Rippon]

And while all are sinners, when God says "the wicked" he is not necessarily speaking of all sinners.Many unregenerate sinners believe there is a God.

You believe there is one God --good for you! even the demons believe this and tremble --James 2:19

So any unregenerate individual who believes there is a God is still wicked.

 

[David Lamb]

Sorry, it's absolutely relevant. Does the creed describe the one true God? Yes, yes it does. Do unregenerates venerate it? Yes, they do. They leave their homes and go into churches full of Christian icons and symbolism and say these words. Yet you say that is not seeking God?

Maybe my own testimony (part of it, at any rate) could be helpful in this. I was brought up by my parents to attend the local parish church, that is, Church of England. Every Sunday morning, and again every Sunday evening, I joined in reciting "The Apostles' Creed". Yes, the building in which the services were held included all sorts of imagery (stained glass windows, crucifixes, bronze eagles, etc.), and yes, there was some sort of veneration every time the creed was recited (we had to face the "altar" when reciting it, and bow our heads when saying "and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord." But were we seeking God? I cannot speak for others, but I know I wasn't. After all, the Church of England taught me that I had been made a Christian when I was "baptised" as a baby - we even sang a hymn whose first verse said:

I was made a Christian
When my name was giv’n,
One of God’s dear children,
And an heir of Heaven.
In the name of Christian
I will glory now,
Evermore remember
My baptismal vow.
​

There was no encouragement to seek God.

When by God's grace I was converted, it was because a school friend who was already a Christian told me that the bible is God's Word, and tells us to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. No one had ever told me this before. I must have recited the creed almost fifteen hundred times over the years before I was converted, but I certainly don't see that as evidence that I was seeking God.

 

[psalms109:31]

You believe there is one God --good for you! even the demons believe this and tremble --James 2:19

So any unregenerate individual who believes there is a God is still wicked.

Isn't the whole premise is faith without deeds is dead?

 

[psalms109:31]

Will of God

I believe man can do nothing righteous before God until the word comes that those who believe(trust) in Jesus shall be saved and those who don't will be condemned.

I don't see one road leading us to one destination as some might presume. We are saved by the will, decisions of God not man that believers in His Son be saved. As in born of God through His word that if we listen and learn we will rely on it. There is only one direction in trusting in Jesus, faith and then deeds eternal life from the dead.

Jesus will keep us and He will not lose one of us.

 

[webdog]

[BTW, as Administrator I handle certain duties. It does not nor has it ever meant that I cannot start threads, discuss threads, give my position/arguments on a thread just like any other member. I will not use any mystical administrative almost godlike powers or voodoo to push my biblical position over your non-biblical position. :saint: note: sarcasm]

You call it sarcasm, but in reality it is what is found in your heart. When you refer to the non reformed as serving another "god", you violate the very rules you are supposed to enforce. You were called out on it by others on that thread, too.

On to the OP. Has God not given unregenerate man the tools to seek Him? Of course He has. All of God's image bearers have creation, their conscience and the desire to be immortal placed within them from birth. They didn't place these in themselves, God did the reaching out to man first, even placing him in the exact location geographically and at the precise moment in time to "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.".

Acts 17 alone refutes the notion an unregenerate man cannot seek God.

 

[Jarthur001]

Why am I thinking of a black iron pot right now?

 

[webdog]

Why am I thinking of a black iron pot right now?

I don't know, which one do you think you are? Is that the substance you can offer to this discussion?

If you are referring to me (which is what I assume since you posted right after me) where have I EVER said a reformed person serves another "god"?

 

[HankD]

Can Unregenerate Man "Do" any Righteous Thing?

Yes:

NKJV Revelation 17

15 Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.​

HankD​