Humanism of arminianism

[Cypress]

Will the ones that come with a debate mindset change? It is rare. However, it does happen.

Jarthur,
Only point of clarification I need still......is the above part of your reply the reason it is few rather than many that change? I do agree certainly that most who are prepared to freely debate do so because they think they are right or at least that the other party is wrong.:love2:

 

[Jarthur001]

You didn't answer the question...do you agree with him?

You are right. I did not answer. But I said I will in good time.

Buddy, you cannot see when another poster reports a post...so leave the omniscience to God (the REAL God that both Arminians and calvinists serve).

I can read replies by people when I ask them. If they disagree and are upset about it, they will say so.

I don't question the salvation of calvinists.

Aaaaaw yes you do. But my salvation does not depend on what you think of me.

I have not lost sleep over it.

 

[Jarthur001]

Jarthur,
Only point of clarification I need still......is the above part of your reply the reason it is few rather than many that change? I do agree certainly that most who are prepared to freely debate do so because they think they are right or at least that the other party is wrong.:love2:

Yes, and in a debate, pride gets in the way. And that is your answer.

In a classroom, there does not seem to be as much of that going on. But I can only speak of the classes I lead.

 

[Cypress]

Jarthur,

Thanks:love2:

 

[Robert Snow]

This is an underhanded, cowardly method of questioning the salvation of non-Calvinists, like myself, without getting edited or banned.

I guess, since it is alright to break the rules when quoting from a book, I will write a book entitled, "The Demonism of Calvinism" and post quotes from it without fear of being edited or banned.

 

[BobinKy]

We debate theology here.

So do Glenn Bulthuis and the Tonedeafs.

Listen to Glenn Bulthuis and the Tonedeafs performing Calvin Girl.

View the Glenn Bulthuis Poster Gallery at the Alumni Association webpage of Calvin College.

...Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

So do Glenn Bultuis and the Tonedeafs.

Listen to Glenn Bultuis and the Tonedeafs performing Calvin Girl.

View the Glenn Bultuis Poster Gallery at the Alumni Association webpage of Calvin College.

...Bob

Rock on....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

This is an underhanded, cowardly method of questioning the salvation of non-Calvinists, like myself, without getting edited or banned.

I guess, since it is alright to break the rules when quoting from a book, I will write a book entitled, "The Demonism of Calvinism" and post quotes from it without fear of being edited or banned.

I applaud your creativity but suggest that you have NO FEAR of being banned. It might turn out to be a badge of honor.

 

[Jarthur001]

Another good question....how did Reformed Believers get the name Calvinist anyway.....is this guilty by association or something?

You bring up a good point. Those that held to the doctrines of grace we called "Calvinist" as a slam, not because they worshiped John Calvin, but because it was the same teachings that Calvin had wrote about. It was a slam.

"Calvinism" is somewhat misleading in that is sounds as if the doctrines are based only on what Calvin wrote. Calvinist doctrine can indeed be found in the writings of Calvin, but others helped influence on what is now called Calvinism.



Calvinism can be said to be "Reformed Protestantism," because it is much more than some people think. The word "Protestantism" came from Luthers time, which in his day meant.."to Cry OUT" or to "Protest against". This was what others begin to call them in other nations as well. The "out cry" was toward the pope and what he had done. The name comes from a letter of protestation by Lutheran princes after Luther was ban from the church.


Years later when the Remonstrants came with their 5 points to demand the orthodox teaching be change to their 5 points, they were the ones that called the church leaders "Calvinist".



At the Synod of Dort the Remonstrants were told to prove their ideas with Scripture, and they walked out. They wanted to use logic 1st. The 1st argument they wanted to consider based on logic, is that Protestantism was teaching the God made sin. They felt like they could prove this with logic. When the church leaders demand they use Scripture to proove it before logic is when they walked. They were asked to come back for over a week. In the end the Synod of Dort went forward without them.



The five points were later called the 5 points of Arminian. The Synod of Dort replied with the 5 points of Calvinism showing from Scripture where they were wrong. One can google Synod of Dort and read all of this.



The name "calvinist" was started by those that hate calvinism, and lives on today.




Call me what you want. It changes nothing.

 

[kyredneck]

From post #4:

"... this creature exalting system contends that man is the exclusive determiner of his own destiny..."

It's far worse than that. It contends that man is the determiner of other men's destinys also, and that in stark contrast to the Lord's own words, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". These men make no bones of placing the burden of other's eternal destiny upon the backs of God's people.

 

[Jarthur001]

This is an underhanded, cowardly method of questioning the salvation of non-Calvinists, like myself, without getting edited or banned.

I guess, since it is alright to break the rules when quoting from a book, I will write a book entitled, "The Demonism of Calvinism" and post quotes from it without fear of being edited or banned.

You mean you believe someone should base a statement on facts?

How about when Calvinist are said to believe they hold John Calvin as high or higher than Holy Spirit? Should someone prove this by a quote from a Calvinist?

What do you think? Can you make a call on this, or will you be silent?

I have not shared my views on this. However, I have backup the OP with quotes from others.

Robert...do you agree with the Arminian I quoted when he said SOME ARIMINIANS are indeed humanist?

A Arminian's words..not a Calvinist.

 

[Robert Snow]

I applaud your creativity but suggest that you have NO FEAR of being banned. It might turn out to be a badge of honor.

No, I don't want to be banned, but what is fair for the goose is fair for the gander.

The thing is that neither the Calvinists or the non-Calvinist here believe the other side is lost because of this difference. We seem more interested in proving ourselves correct than we do about obeying the scripture concerning how we should treat each other as Christians.

 

[Robert Snow]

You mean you believe someone should base a statement on facts?

How about when Calvinist are said to believe they hold John Calvin as high or higher than Holy Spirit? Should someone prove this by a quote from a Calvinist?

What do you think? Can you make a call on this, or will you be silent?

I have not shared my views on this. However, I have backup the OP with quotes from others.

Robert...do you agree with the Arminian I quoted when he said SOME ARIMINIANS are indeed humanist?

A Arminian's words..not a Calvinist.

Again, your dishonesty is evident from your conclusions. You state something an Arminian said as though he speaks for all who are not Calvinists. You know this isn't the truth, but it serves your purpose to pigeon-hole those you don't agree with.

You mention about a Calvinists being labeled as holding Calvin in higher regard than the Holy Spirit. Again, just because one person said it, doesn't make it true for anyone except the poster. Yet you assign this position to all who reject the Calvinist position.

 

[Luke2427]

Again, your dishonesty is evident from your conclusions. You state something an Arminian said as though he speaks for all who are not Calvinists. You know this isn't the truth, but it serves your purpose to pigeon-hole those you don't agree with.

You mention about a Calvinists being labeled as holding Calvin in higher regard than the Holy Spirit. Again, just because one person said it, doesn't make it true for anyone except the poster. Yet you assign this position to all who reject the Calvinist position.

Have you noticed yet that everyone who disagrees with you and debates you for more than ten posts has some moral failure in your dimly lit judgmental eyes?

He is either an idolater who worships a man or a heretic or a liar.

What does that tell you about yourself?

 

[Old Union Brother]

The thing is that neither the Calvinists or the non-Calvinist here believe the other side is lost because of this difference. We seem more interested in proving ourselves correct than we do about obeying the scripture concerning how we should treat each other as Christians.

As I've said many times! :applause::applause:

 

[Luke2427]

As I've said many times! :applause::applause:

This guy that you applaud is the biggest user of the term heretic on this board.

He is very inflammatory.

He had a post removed because it was so blatantly against the rules which are designed to promote civility.

He has said he would resist people like me with his dying breath.

He calls us worshipers of Calvin and claims that we appeal to the words of men more than the Words of God.

This very day he blatantly accused a brother of being dishonest.

Applauding him for this remark is like applauding an active member of the KKK for promoting racial equality.

I realize that you may have never noticed this about him, you may have never seen it, but I thought you should know.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

The OP is built on a tangled web of lies and deception. Arminians believe that God is all-sovereign and that He elected people to salvation based on His perfect foreknowledge because He chose to do it that way out of His sovereignty. Arminians also believe that man is totally depraved and that we can not be saved without the grace of God, and that salvation is all of God and Christ's all-sufficient work on the cross.

 

[Rippon]

You mention about a Calvinists being labeled as holding Calvin in higher regard than the Holy Spirit. Again, just because one person said it, doesn't make it true for anyone except the poster. Yet you assign this position to all who reject the Calvinist position.

A deliberate lie is not true for the one who posted it -- it's still a deliberate lie.

But I agree with you that all non-Cals don't agree that the lie was actually true. Yet the non-Cals here don't have any backbone to call the lie indeed a lie.

 

[Robert Snow]

This guy that you applaud is the biggest user of the term heretic on this board...

Again, throw a rock at a pack of dogs and the one hit will howl the loudest :laugh:

 

[Robert Snow]

The OP is built on a tangled web of lies and deception. Arminians believe that God is all-sovereign and that He elected people to salvation based on His perfect foreknowledge because He chose to do it that way out of His sovereignty. Arminians also believe that man is totally depraved and that we can not be saved without the grace of God, and that salvation is all of God and Christ's all-sufficient work on the cross.

Very well put! :applause: