No. My spiritual heritage never fell into apostasy so it never needed reformation. As I stated earlier, I am an historic Particular Baptist.So what do you call yourself....Reformed?
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No. My spiritual heritage never fell into apostasy so it never needed reformation. As I stated earlier, I am an historic Particular Baptist.So what do you call yourself....Reformed?
Well, when you are trying to convince yourself that a verse is saying the exact opposite of what it clearly says, it can get a bit confusing.
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Hank, we are not talking about believers suffering for Christ's sake, we are talking about God being longsuffering toward sinners that they should repent and believe.
There is nothing in scripture to indicate God wants to put off the salvation of a sinner for a moment. Jesus constantly warned people to be ready, as he would come when they did not expect.
So, if God imposes faith on a man, why would he wait and be longsuffering when he can regenerate them now?
Thanks Winman and yes, I can see your point of logic.
But personally, I think asking God "why" He does something is a wrong path to take though I have often wondered that myself in some cases.
e.g. Why did God create Lucifer knowing full well what would happen?
I know the stock answer - for His glory - I just can't see the logic in
light of all the sin and death, pain, suffering, disease, the crucifixion, etc, etc...
Could He not have created the final result of the eternal state and by-pass the evil and misery part?
But it's not required of me to figure it out, so my answer is I don't know why God does some things which might seem illogical to me.
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
HankD
That article you posted shows why it is a false argument for Calvinists to constanty accuse non-Cals of misrepresenting your position. You have no one position that all who call themselves Calvinist agree to.
Winman, why is it that you cannot simply read and comprehend that HYPER-CALVINISM is not Calvinism. You are either:
1) Dense, i.e., an idiot
2) Challenged in your ability to read and comprehend
3) An outright liar
Which is it?
Anyone who wishes can discover that hyper-Calvinism is not historical nor biblical Calvinism any more than Pelagianism is not historical nor biblical Arminianism.
To say otherwise leads to the conclusions I draw above.
Winman, why is it that you cannot simply read and comprehend that HYPER-CALVINISM is not Calvinism. You are either:
1) Dense, i.e., an idiot
2) Challenged in your ability to read and comprehend
3) An outright liar
Which is it?
Anyone who wishes can discover that hyper-Calvinism is not historical nor biblical Calvinism any more than Pelagianism is not historical nor biblical Arminianism.
To say otherwise leads to the conclusions I draw above.
That's a bit harsh. I don't really see the need for that.
That's a bit harsh. I don't really see the need for that. God is good it's a great day, let's love each other.
No, actually that was quite mild as a rebuke. Winman constantly and consistently misrepresents the position of Calvinism. By now, it has to be intentional, for he has been informed over and again.
No, actually that was quite mild as a rebuke. Winman constantly and consistently misrepresents the position of Calvinism. By now, it has to be intentional, for he has been informed over and again.
I wasn't questioning your rebuke, just the way you went about it. As the rules of posting state unbelievers visit this site. What will they see when they visit?
And really, I think that is what this life is all about, God is giving every man the choice whether to love him or not. He does not force himself upon anyone. But he has already shown his great love toward us in that he gave his only Son to die for our sins. That's a pretty good reason to love him.
So you believe God created some people predestined for Hell? Nothing they can do about it. He's not gonna "call" them to Himself? No matter what? Calvinists are a strange bunch.
I disagree with his 2nd point, election is according to foreknowledge (1 Pet 1:2). I believe this is God's foreknowledge of who will believe shown in John 6:64.
I disagee with his 4th point, we are not made alive to believe, we must believe to be made alive (John 20:31 and MANY other verses).
Now, I do not say man can possibly believe without the revelation and conviction of God's word, but this is not life. Hebrews 6 clearly shows a man can have knowledge and enlightenment of salvation, and yet turn from the truth and fall away.
So you believe God created some people predestined for Hell? Nothing they can do about it. He's not gonna "call" them to Himself? No matter what? Calvinists are a strange bunch.
For example Pinoybaptist says he is a Calvinist, but his views are very different from others here who say they are Calvinist.
If you make a statement that truly represents one person's view of Calvinism, another Calvinist will say you misrepresent the doctrine.
"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin
Here is some from the 1689 confession of faithI would like for a Calvinist here to explain to me, without any negative comments from anyone else, what the Calvinistic view of predestination is. I don't want to start a debate over that, just an explanation.
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )
3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )
4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )
5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )
6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )
7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )