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New dispensation of salvation?

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Robert Snow

New Member
Doesn't that make us children of the devil instead of God ?

Speak for yourself!

I turned to God from sin when He presented me the choice, praise God! That makes me a child of God, not the devil!

The Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin when the Gospel was presented. I realized I had offended a Holy God, and ran to Jesus for mercy!
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. swzw sozo sode'-zo

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Acts 4:12
Verse 12. Neither is there salvation. The word salvation properly denotes any preservation, or keeping anything in a safe state; a preserving it from harm. It signifies, also, deliverance from any evil of body or mind; from pain, sickness, danger, etc., Ac 7:25. But it is in the New Testament applied particularly to the work which the Messiah came to do, "to seek and to save that which was lost," Lu 19:10. This work refers primarily to a deliverance of the soul from sin, Mt 1:21; Ac 5:31; Lu 4:18; Ro 8:21; Ga 5:1.

Amy, you've not (actually you can't) shown sozo to be used in the eternal sense. But you have brought in another word to consider: lost.

For the Son of man came to save that which was lost. How think ye? if any man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and go unto the mountains, and seek that which goeth astray? Mt 18:11,12

But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:24

...Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt:10:5,6

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, and having lost one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and his neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. Lu 15:4,5,6

Take note, they're sheep, not goats. Lost implies something out of place, not something bound for destruction. Show me, prove it to me, that lost means eternity burning in hell.
 
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pinoybaptist

Active Member
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Speak for yourself!

I turned to God from sin when He presented me the choice, praise God! That makes me a child of God, not the devil!

The Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin when the Gospel was presented. I realized I had offended a Holy God, and ran to Jesus for mercy!

you turned to God from sin BECAUSE you were already a child of God. regenerate. known to your maker from eternity past. not once in your timely life were you out of His mind and out of His sight.
In due time He regenerated you.
That is why when you HEARD your Master's voice, you responded, because He quickened you FIRST.
With or without you hearing the gospel, with or without a gospel church being in the vicinity of your timely residence, you will still be His property because He bought you with His blood.
All this boils down to is: who is the leading man. you. or God.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Show me the scripture that makes this distinction?

Snowed, I'll show you, but it'll do no good.

personal insults removed

I submit to you Snowed, some scripture here for your meditation and reasoning [edit] concerning the effectual call and the gospel call:

When Christ first commissioned The Twelve (Mt 10, Lk 10), He told them:

“Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

They were sheep already, not goats. Lost implies something out of place, not something bound for destruction.

Christ instructed them to search for those worthy, and for those sons of peace.

“...whatsoever city or village ye shall enter, search out who in it is worthy...”

“....if a son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon him....”

How did they become 'worthy sons of peace' prior to hearing and believing the gospel? By being born of the Spirit that blows where He wills.


“for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);” Ro 2:13-15

How did these gentiles, described as DOERS of the law that had not the law, come to have that law written in their hearts? By being born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.


“Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!” Jn 1:47

How was it that Nathanael is called a true Jew with no guile before he had even met Christ? By being born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.


“But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.” Jn 3:21

How is it that those that come to Christ are already doing the truth and have done good works from God? By being born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.


“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......” Jn 3:36; “.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...” Jn5:24; “... He that believeth hath eternal life.” Jn 6:47

How is it that those that believe are already in possession of eternal life? By being born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.


“I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.” Ps 87:4

How is it that these gentiles outside of the covenant could have known God? By being born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.


“.....For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.” Gal 4:27

How is it that there were MORE of them among the gentiles than the Jews. They were born of the Spirit, who blows where He wills.

....etc., etc.


“........It behoveth you to be born from above” Jn 3:7 YLT

Christ was not implementing something new here. He was revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been. The true Jew had always been he who is one inwardly, and circumcision had always been that of the heart, and the true children of Israel have always been those born of that Jerusalem that is above.
 
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kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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4982. sozo sode'-zo from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Here is from the "blue letter bible" on line:

1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

a) one (from injury or peril)

1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health

1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue

b) to save in the technical biblical sense

1) negatively

a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment

b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

Acts 2:2 1And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved

Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Whenever it talks of saving/saved, I believe it is referring to salvation. When the Lord saved me, I got eternal life right then and there. I am not waiting on eternal life, because I already have it by what Jesus did for me!!

i am I am's!!

Willis

Heheh, Willis, I'll tell you the same as I did Amy, You've NOT shown 'sozo' to be used in the eternal sense. You simply can't do it.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But the Bible shows people resisting the HS. Acts 7:51 shows this. That indicates to me a choice.

That one is always overlooked, brushed under the carpet, or twisted to mean the Holy Ghost was not calling them.

Please, be fair to the context here. The Holy Spirit, through Stephen, is condemning/convicting the Jews of what they had done down through the ages, which was resisting the will of their God.

I will go through Acts 7 v by v with you in order to make this point if need be.
 

Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Please, be fair to the context here. The Holy Spirit, through Stephen, is condemning/convicting the Jews of what they had done down through the ages, which was resisting the will of their God.

I will go through Acts 7 v by v with you in order to make this point if need be.

From a Calvinistic POV? NO Thanks
 

jbh28

Active Member
That one is always overlooked, brushed under the carpet, or twisted to mean the Holy Ghost was not calling them.

Reformed theology doesn't teach that the Holy Spirit can never be resisted. As one Calvinist put it:

Calvinists do believe that men can resist the Holy Spirit. They believe that even the elect can resist the Holy Spirit, and do - but only up to the time when the Spirit regenerates their heart so that resist Him no more. The non-elect effectively resist Him all their lives.
- http://www.oldtruth.com/calvinism/avoidingconfusion.html

That's the problem when we only look at a title and not what the definition teaches. Of course that's why I don't like the titles anyway.
 

Robert Snow

New Member
Snowed, I'll show you, but it'll do no good. 'You people', 'you free willers', with your shallow, hasty approach to the scriptures that totally lacks in any serious deep meditation or reasoning, simply will not 'get it'. Period.

Well Ky-redhead, that's what I love about you Primitive Baptists, your love for other members of the body of Christ.

You specifically, Snowed, are h*ll bent on slanting the Primitive Baptists to be as evil as you can possibly construe them to be. You wouldn't have anything good to say about the Primirive Baptists even if they come up with a cure for cancer.

Only if I had cancer. But, knowing your unusual beliefs, which seem more like a cross between a Jehovah's Witness and a Church of Christ, I am surprised you even use medicine. I would think you would treat it like you do instruments in Church.

I submit to you Snowed, some scripture here for your meditation and reasoning...

Like I thought, you got nothing!

This looks like a lengthy explanation to support a doctrine that is not taught in scripture.
 

Robert Snow

New Member
You wouldn't know what love is if it hit you in the face. lol.

Sure I would. All I have to do is the opposite of what you do.

You've plainly shown in the past that you only love those of your ilk. This isn't what the bible teaches as love, but it seem to be par for the course for Primitive Baptists
 

Luke2427

Active Member
Sure I would. All I have to do is the opposite of what you do.

You've plainly shown in the past that you only love those of your ilk. This isn't what the bible teaches as love, but it seem to be par for the course for Primitive Baptists

[personal insults removed]
 
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Don

Well-Known Member
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...The non-elect effectively resist Him all their lives.....
In other words: God, who can do all things, is effectively stymied by men.

I thought that's what the Armenians were guilty of saying?
 

Luke2427

Active Member
In other words: God, who can do all things, is effectively stymied by men.

I thought that's what the Armenians were guilty of saying?

Not stymied- resisted. The words are not synonymous.

A gnat may resist my approach toward the barbecue ribs at the picnic but it cannot stymie it at all- an ox might not do better if the ribs are good!
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not stymied- resisted. The words are not synonymous.

A gnat may resist my approach toward the barbecue ribs at the picnic but it cannot stymie it at all- an ox might not do better if the ribs are good!
Luke - the phrasing was "effectively resisted." If you effectively resisted something, you prevented that thing from happening; i.e., you stymied (thwarted, obstructed) it.

Context, my friend.
 

Luke2427

Active Member
Luke - the phrasing was "effectively resisted." If you effectively resisted something, you prevented that thing from happening; i.e., you stymied (thwarted, obstructed) it.

Context, my friend.

Then, no, God's will cannot ever be "effectively" resisted.

It can only be resisted willfully, like the gnat that resists my trek to the ribs, but not effectually.

God worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will.

Isaiah 45:10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

These verses also make this clear:

Ex 4:11
Deut 32:39
2 Chr 20:6
Ps 103:19
Ps 115:3
Ps 135:6
Isa 46:10
Dan 4:35
Luke 1:37
Acts 4:27-28
Acts 17:26
Rev 17:17
 
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