Age of Accountability

[Zenas]

I don’t take issue with this phenomenon or the theology arising out of it, but I have not found it in the Bible. The nearest thing I can come up with is 2 Samuel 12:23 and that relates to a child who died while only a few days old. Is there scriptural support for the age of accountability, or is it just a logical construct?

 

[Winman]

There is scripture that supports this, the most direct is Deu 1:39. Here God says those Israelites that sinned in the wilderness would not enter the promised land, but the children WHICH IN THAT DAY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL were allowed to go in. This shows God did not hold the children accountable, the promised land being a figure of heaven.
Isa 7:16 says, BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD. This shows little children cannot discern between good and evil.
In Jon 4:11 God asks Jonah if he should not spare Ninevah that had 120,000 persons that could not discern between their right hand and their left hand. This is speaking of children.
There is more, but I have to go to work.

 

[freeatlast]

There is scripture that supports this, the most direct is Deu 1:39. Here God says those Israelites that sinned in the wilderness would not enter the promised land, but the children WHICH IN THAT DAY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL were allowed to go in. This shows God did not hold the children accountable, the promised land being a figure of heaven.
Isa 7:16 says, BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD. This shows little children cannot discern between good and evil.
In Jon 4:11 God asks Jonah if he should not spare Ninevah that had 120,000 persons that could not discern between their right hand and their left hand. This is speaking of children.
There is more, but I have to go to work.

If the promise land is a figure of heaven then the account of God not allowing Moses in to the promise land means that Moses is not in heaven.

The Isa passage you pointed to all I can say is you must be joking! Even the most unlearned can see that the passage has absolutely nothing to do with accountability. In fact one could easily say it helps show that there is no accountability.

The Jonah passage is not about them getting into heaven. It is about them being spared to grow until they can accept the truth. If they were were going to go into heaven at death then the thing to do was to wipe them out at the young age and usher them into heaven.

Please understand I am not saying there is no age of accountability, but there is no clear scripture to support it either if we understand why man is lost and how we are saved.
One more thing. Setting or suggesting any age for it is very dangerous.

 

[Jarthur001]

I don’t take issue with this phenomenon or the theology arising out of it, but I have not found it in the Bible. The nearest thing I can come up with is 2 Samuel 12:23 and that relates to a child who died while only a few days old. Is there scriptural support for the age of accountability, or is it just a logical construct?

there is no age of accountability. This is dangerous doctrine.

 

[Jarthur001]

There is scripture that supports this, the most direct is Deu 1:39.

You do understand that this is talking about the age of 19. Right?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I don't know of any specific age of accountability mentioned in scripture.

However, going to the greek we see that the word that is translated as "blessed" is the same root word for "eulogy" meaning to speak well of.

So according to the greek Jesus spoke well of the little children. Since Jesus is our advocate before the Father and his will and the Father's will are united, it seems to me that there is no reason he would change his mind about speaking well of the children.

I see no explicit teaching of the age of accountability in scripture but I believe that this example implicitly teaches that children are loved by the Lord. Due to that I believe that children who die know Christ in some way and he is their advocate before the Father. It seems to me that childhood death is a sign of election.

Mark10-13-16
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Mark 10:16
Mar 10:16 AndG2532 he took them up in his arms,G1723 G846 putG5087his handsG5495 uponG1909 them,G846 and blessedG2127 them.G846

G2127
εὐλογέω
eulogeō
yoo-log-eh'-o
From a compound of G2095 and G3056; to speak well of, that is, (religiously) to bless (thank or invoke a benediction upon, prosper): - bless, praise.

 

[jbh28]

You do understand that this is talking about the age of 19. Right?

And where do you get that it is referring to age 19?

 

[J.D.]

I don’t take issue with this phenomenon or the theology arising out of it, but I have not found it in the Bible. The nearest thing I can come up with is 2 Samuel 12:23 and that relates to a child who died while only a few days old. Is there scriptural support for the age of accountability, or is it just a logical construct?

There's no scriptural support for it.

 

[webdog]

You do understand that this is talking about the age of 19. Right?

Is that "an" age of accountability or isn't it? You said there was "no" age of accountability.

 

[webdog]

8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

No specific age, but realization of offenses committed (conscience = with knowledge)

In addition, if there is no age when we become accountable, the only alternative is the fact every aborted human and infant is in hell

 

[J.D.]

There is scripture that supports this, the most direct is Deu 1:39. Here God says those Israelites that sinned in the wilderness would not enter the promised land, but the children WHICH IN THAT DAY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL were allowed to go in. This shows God did not hold the children accountable, the promised land being a figure of heaven.
Isa 7:16 says, BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD. This shows little children cannot discern between good and evil.
In Jon 4:11 God asks Jonah if he should not spare Ninevah that had 120,000 persons that could not discern between their right hand and their left hand. This is speaking of children.
There is more, but I have to go to work.

The New Testament (Hebrews) tells us that that first generation did not enter in because of unbelief. The passage you refer to does not imply that the children of the exodus were in an Edenic state of innocence, but that they were not responsible for their parent's bad choices. The second generation did enter the land (with Joshua and Caleb - think about that) because they believed in God's ability to deliver the land to them, unlike their parents. The Mosaic (Law) Covenant was imposed upon them with all of its conditions and warnings.

 

[J.D.]

Originally Posted by Winman
There is scripture that supports this, the most direct is Deu 1:39. Here God says those Israelites that sinned in the wilderness would not enter the promised land, but the children WHICH IN THAT DAY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL were allowed to go in. This shows God did not hold the children accountable, the promised land being a figure of heaven.
Isa 7:16 says, BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD. This shows little children cannot discern between good and evil.
In Jon 4:11 God asks Jonah if he should not spare Ninevah that had 120,000 persons that could not discern between their right hand and their left hand. This is speaking of children.
There is more, but I have to go to work.

And as for the Isaiah 7 passage, you need to think about how it relates to Christ, since he is ultimately the Virgin-born child prophesied in verse 14, and how knowing to refuse evil is related to butter and honey (v 15). The child learns what is bad or evil by consistent exposure to what is good. While this is a general truth applicable to all people, it applies to Christ in that he is said to have "learned obedience" (Heb 5:8) even though He was already God's Son, which speaks to the mystery of the union of Christ, both God and Man in one person.

The passage in Jonah, like the Deuteronomy passage, speaks to the children not being responsible for the parent's sins. It does not speak to whether they are responsible for their own sins or not.

If anything, the verses you have supplied shows that children, because of their ignorance of what's right and wrong, are apt to choose the wrong. This is totally consistent with original sin - the inborn sinful nature of man.

 

[Winman]

The New Testament (Hebrews) tells us that that first generation did not enter in because of unbelief. The passage you refer to does not imply that the children of the exodus were in an Edenic state of innocence, but that they were not responsible for their parent's bad choices. The second generation did enter the land (with Joshua and Caleb - think about that) because they believed in God's ability to deliver the land to them, unlike their parents. The Mosaic (Law) Covenant was imposed upon them with all of its conditions and warnings.

Joshua and Caleb did not sin like the other adults. But where you get that the second generation believed Joshua and Caleb I do not know. Where is the scripture that says this?

Num 14:2 And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!

 

[Winman]

The passage in Jonah, like the Deuteronomy passage, speaks to the children not being responsible for the parent's sins. It does not speak to whether they are responsible for their own sins or not.

If anything, the verses you have supplied shows that children, because of their ignorance of what's right and wrong, are apt to choose the wrong. This is totally consistent with original sin - the inborn sinful nature of man.

That is just the point, original sin says we inherit Adam's sin and guilt, but God says no son shall die for the sins of his father, or the father for the sins of the son. God imposing sin and guilt on us for Adam's sin would be God violating his own law.

Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

I disagree with your interpretation of Jonah. Look what it says;

Jonah 4:10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

God says Jonah had pity on a gourd that he did not labor for or cause to grow, and then asks if he "should not" spare Nineveh that had 120,000 children. God implies that he created these children and made them grow. He implies it is the "right thing" to spare them. He also compares them to cattle which cannot know right from wrong.

As for your second comment, you are reading into it what you want it to say. It does show that a child must mature before they can understand sin and choose either to obey evil or obey good.

I do not deny that even little children sin, but I do not believe God holds them accountable until they understand their actions.

 

[freeatlast]

And as for the Isaiah 7 passage, you need to think about how it relates to Christ, since he is ultimately the Virgin-born child prophesied in verse 14, and how knowing to refuse evil is related to butter and honey (v 15). The child learns what is bad or evil by consistent exposure to what is good. While this is a general truth applicable to all people, it applies to Christ in that he is said to have "learned obedience" (Heb 5:8) even though He was already God's Son, which speaks to the mystery of the union of Christ, both God and Man in one person.

The passage in Jonah, like the Deuteronomy passage, speaks to the children not being responsible for the parent's sins. It does not speak to whether they are responsible for their own sins or not.

If anything, the verses you have supplied shows that children, because of their ignorance of what's right and wrong, are apt to choose the wrong. This is totally consistent with original sin - the inborn sinful nature of man.

My friend what you evidently do not understand is why man is lost. We are not lost because we murder, lie, or rape. We are lost because two sinners came together and had a little sinner. it is inherited. Man was lost from Adam to Moses without law and there is no provision given for anyone who does not come by faith.
As I stated before i am not saying that there is no provision, but there is absolutely none given and you trying to twist scriptures to make it seem that there is does not glorify God.

 

[J.D.]

Joshua and Caleb did not sin like the other adults. But where you get that the second generation believed Joshua and Caleb I do not know. Where is the scripture that says this?

Num 14:2 And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!

Hebrews states that those that failed to enter the land did so because of unbelief (I gave the reference already). By extension, those that entered did so through faith - they believed God. I did not say specifically that the second generation believed Joshua and Caleb's report, however I think it does stand in that light since their report was never revoked or rescinded by God - the land was their's to take if they would believe. The whole point of the Hebrews passage is to establish the necessity of faith to enter into God's blessings, and consequently into His promised salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

Once again failure to understand romans 5 leads to this error

8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity, but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…” Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.

From WR.Downing.....the problem of evil

 

[quantumfaith]

My friend what you evidently do not understand is why man is lost. We are not lost because we murder, lie, or rape. We are lost because two sinners came together and had a little sinner. it is inherited. Man was lost from Adam to Moses without law and there is no provision given for anyone who does not come by faith.
As I stated before i am not saying that there is no provision, but there is absolutely none given and you trying to twist scriptures to make it seem that there is does not glorify God.

free:

I like that....."lostness is inherited"....

 

[J.D.]

That is just the point, original sin says we inherit Adam's sin and guilt, but God says no son shall die for the sins of his father, or the father for the sins of the son. God imposing sin and guilt on us for Adam's sin would be God violating his own law.

Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

I disagree with your interpretation of Jonah. Look what it says;

Jonah 4:10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

God says Jonah had pity on a gourd that he did not labor for or cause to grow, and then asks if he "should not" spare Nineveh that had 120,000 children. God implies that he created these children and made them grow. He implies it is the "right thing" to spare them. He also compares them to cattle which cannot know right from wrong.

As for your second comment, you are reading into it what you want it to say. It does show that a child must mature before they can understand sin and choose either to obey evil or obey good.

I do not deny that even little children sin, but I do not believe God holds them accountable until they understand their actions.

So an infant, or a person that never develops an understanding of their actions, are not in need of grace? They make to heaven on their own merits? No, they are saved by grace as is anyone else. Why is it grace? Because they bear the image of their father Adam, whether they are aware of it or not.

But lest we stray from the OP, let's get back to the original point - is there an age of accountability supported in the Bible? Even your own defense does not support - but merely that anyone that is not somehow aware that they are sinning is not accountable for their sins.

 

[J.D.]

My friend what you evidently do not understand is why man is lost. We are not lost because we murder, lie, or rape. We are lost because two sinners came together and had a little sinner. it is inherited. Man was lost from Adam to Moses without law and there is no provision given for anyone who does not come by faith.
As I stated before i am not saying that there is no provision, but there is absolutely none given and you trying to twist scriptures to make it seem that there is does not glorify God.

?? I think you just described exactly what I believe? What don't I understand?