Age of Accountability

[saturneptune]

Amen, Brother, Amen!!! Does this mean I have you on my side??? LOL

No doubt about it, for sure. I see you sleep about as well as I do. I have never gotten a good pattern back since I retired from a midnight shift over a year ago.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Bro. EWF,

Here is something I want you to chew on. I think we can get a lot of things from the very beginning, if we only dig and pray for it. I read your post and this is what came to mind:

Gen. 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

God had given him(Adam) all that he needed, correct? Now, if God wanted to, He could have "dressed it and kept it", correct? However, God chose to let Adam dress it and keep it. So, IOW, the responsibilty to keep the Garden was laid solely on Adam, correct?....this was before God made Eve from Adam's rib. So when God calls, it's our responsibilty to heed to the call. All the responsibilty of salvation(meaning if we reject, we could die in our sins before He calls again) is squarely laid in our lap. We can't stand before Jesus and then say we were never offered salvation.

I know that this analogy may be "far out there" for some on here, but give this some deeper thought before casting judgement. God gave Adam and Eve everything they needed, but it was up to them(responsibilty) to "keep and dress the Garden". God gave us everything we needed when He allowed His Son to die for our sins!! Now, it's up to us to heed the call when it comes(responsibilty placed upon us then).

i am I AM's!!

Willis

Im convinced Willis that if God left anything up to man, that man in his sin nature would have embarrassed God by laughing at Christ hanging there on the cross. Man, if left to his own sin nature would just have laughed & carried on sinning. You talk of responsibility & I have to answer you with...."Are you quite serious"? Man & sin & responsibility? IT DOES NOT COMPUTE! LOL

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are you saying you never felt any conviction of sin? Did you just wake up one morning and bam you were saved?

to me, what was sin but reality. & no I didnt wake up & bam. It was a progression of events that knocked me off my high horse.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So then the atonement is for everyone - until they hit a particular age and then it is no longer for them - unless they choose to follow Christ.

I just don't see that in Scripture.

Why would you choose to follow christ....If all your needs are being met? Why? Then you have to alter your career in drinking & cavorting. Now the devil, he is a fan of man......" here you go son, here is all your toys. Thanks sir, can I have some more.

Now with God its, dont touch! What do you mean dont touch? Im in NYC, the big apple.....there are pretty women, drinking, drugs, cars, parties everything I want....a veritable playground. What do you mean dont touch?:laugh: Thats how the unsaved think. What you gotta do really is save them from themselves. Responsibility....I dont think so.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anytime we hold beliefs that form or point to doctrine we are adding to scripture if there is no scripture to support the view and especially if that belief stated or written influences others to accept it as truth.

Spoken like a true Pietist...fervent devotion to Christ that nonetheless is more interested in personal experience than biblical doctrine.....Classic. Hates coherent doctrinal framework & systematic theology.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have in this thread an array of theories based on lots of opinion. The 1689 document mentioned several times is another man made document, not Inspired, nor is it Scripture. Neither are opinions and theories arising out of either Calvinism or free will type reasoning. It all centers on Scripture. Maybe these two verses out of Romans 7 would help. There are similar verses in Romans 5 and 6.

9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

We are all going to die a physical death because of the curse of sin. Spiritual death comes with the awareness of the law. So, if you want to know the age of accountability, then figure out when each individual became aware of the law, or maybe you could term it knowing the difference between right and wrong. No doubt it is different from person to person.

Yes & Pelagian read scriptures & got a whole different interpretation than did Augustine. Now its time to write some doctrine.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Amen, Brother, Amen!!! Does this mean I have you on my side??? LOL

What side is that ....dark side of the moon? :laugh:

 

[freeatlast]

9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

We are all going to die a physical death because of the curse of sin. Spiritual death comes with the awareness of the law. So, if you want to know the age of accountability, then figure out when each individual became aware of the law, or maybe you could term it knowing the difference between right and wrong. No doubt it is different from person to person.

I think that is a possibility, but I would add that I don’t think it would have to be an awareness of just the law. Just at the point we felt guilt for violating our conscience if the text is suggesting that. In some areas they never hear the law. Even so I would not run around and claim that this is a proof text for the age of accountability as it still leaves serious questions.

 

[saturneptune]

I think that is a possibility, but I would add that I don’t think it would have to be an awareness of just the law. Just at the point we felt guilt for violating our conscience if the text is suggesting that. In some areas they never hear the law. Even so I would not run around and claim that this is a proof text for the age of accountability as it still leaves serious questions.

That is true in a sense. For those that never hear the Gospel, Romans 1 talks about enough revelation of the Lord through oberving His Creation. You can get into all sorts of different views of different situations, but the only group I can think of that could not grasp right from wrong as we call it would be those whose mental capabilities never developed. Only the Lord knows. I do know one thing. We hear Scripture Sunday after Sunday, year after year, where some never hear. We in this country are certainly going to have no excuse in that area.

 

[percho]

Now to follow up and go deeper into Hebrews chapter 8:

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Now, here it states that their fathers "continued not in my covenant". So, how could they not continue, unless they were a part of the covenant to begin with? If they 'continued not", it looks like they chose not to continue.....see where I am going with this??

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:Again, it looks like here it is talking about the indwelling of the holy Spirit, that didn't take place until after Jesus died and was ascended to the Father the last time.

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Until we are confronted with the Law, are souls are "spiritually alive" unto God. When the Law shows us how sinful we really are, we then die the "spiritual death".

i am I AM's!!

Willis

You are correct there is something different after the death burial and resurrection of Jesus the Christ than it was before his death burial and resurrection concerning man. The first man Adam was made a living soul and was the figure of him to come that is the Word made flesh a living soul in the likeness of the first man Adam and died the last Adam and resurrected a quickening spirit. In Jesus the Christ, born of Mary God is changing man and man has nothing zilch to do with it.

Presently you would say we are under the great commission Go ye and make/teach. From what you quoted above:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: Why?
For they shall all know me from the least to the greatest. How?
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

From my post 47. Please read
There is a line from verse three of "There is a Fountain" that says,
"be saved to sin no more"
Is this absolutely true? Will there be a time when we in a body that is in an house not made with hands will be saved to sin no more? There is a reason that this is said of the Word made flesh a living soul that died, after he was raised from the dead. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He was the cause, the first to bring it forth by being raised from the dead as Col. 1:18 says And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence

Please read post 47. The Thessalonians were not concerned about some babies that died if they had gone to heaven or not, neither were they concerned if there friends who had died went to heaven or not. They were concerned about how their dead friends were going to be in the kingdom of God and Paul told them just as they believe Jesus died and was raised from the dead by the same way would God bring them with Jesus into the kingdom of God at his coming. They will then be spiritual beings with the laws of God in them and will be saved to sin no more for they will be born again.