Age of Accountability

[Zenas]

I posted this earlier ...this answers the question if you understand it.


All sinned in Adam...all infants,all people ever born sinned in Adam.
they are guilty as soon as they are conceived.There is no "innocent"child.

So you think babies who die go to Hell?

 

[Iconoclast]

So you think babies who die go to Hell?

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner,was talking to someone about the Lord in a truckstop,lol

from the 1689 confession of faith;

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

Zenas...any such baby will be in heaven not because they were innocent,but because God had mercy upon their soul,and applied the blood of the covenant to them,giving them life eternal,repentance and faith.
The same with any persons unable to mentally be called by the word through the normal preaching of the gospel.

 

[Old Union Brother]

The problem with this is his "what it must mean". Paul stated emphatically "I was alive" and "I died", not "I considered myself alive" and "I was under further guilt". Surely the Holy Spirit could have inspired that, no?

Good post. You are right.

 

[Old Union Brother]

I believe that we now come to these questions:

1. Was there a time when you were more afraid of punishment from your parents than punishment from God?

2. When did you realize you were a sinner?

3. Who brought that realization?

4. Before that realization were you alive without the Law?

Keep in mind that the scripture says:

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I'll give my answers later. After I get some input.

 

[freeatlast]

Why is it that they have to lose their faith at the age of accountability? I would agree with that if salvation was insufficient but if it's good enough to get anyone into heaven, it's good for life.



Winman, my children were all saved at 4 and 5 years old. My girls were all 4 when they, of their own voice, were ready. Each one told us quietly that they wanted Jesus in their hearts because they loved Him and wanted to be with Him forever. My son took a little longer and he was 5 when this happened. My two oldest are now 18 and almost 21 and they both have VERY strong walks with the Lord (strong enough to make me weep with joy) and the two little ones who are 8 and 10 just seem to really have it as well. I don't see it as a little "Jesus loves me, I wanna raise my hand" thing but a true saving faith that will carry them through life. I've gotta say, I'm one grateful mama.

Ann you answered your own question in this very post. If your girls got saved at 4 and 5, but were saved as babies, as you have been claiming is possible because you think that they can have faith as babies then they had to lose their salvation to get saved again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I believe that we now come to these questions:

1. Was there a time when you were more afraid of punishment from your parents than punishment from God? Yes

2. When did you realize you were a sinner?
When I heard a cd with George Whitefield convicting me of the sin of unbelief in his sermon "The Method Of Grace"

3. Who brought that realization? HS


4. Before that realization were you alive without the Law? Only in my sins....I reveled in it.

Keep in mind that the scripture says:



I'll give my answers later. After I get some input.

Your turn...where are you going with this

 

[Old Union Brother]

Your turn...where are you going with this

My answers are the same as yours except for #2. I was about 12 and I had been left some chores to do when I got home from school and I got mad. When I was outside a way from the house I swore an oath. The next thing that I knew, I felt guilty of what I had said and it wasn't because Mom or Dad heard me. I felt convicted and I believe it was the Holy spirit that convicted me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why is it that they have to lose their faith at the age of accountability? I would agree with that if salvation was insufficient but if it's good enough to get anyone into heaven, it's good for life.



Winman, my children were all saved at 4 and 5 years old. My girls were all 4 when they, of their own voice, were ready. Each one told us quietly that they wanted Jesus in their hearts because they loved Him and wanted to be with Him forever. My son took a little longer and he was 5 when this happened. My two oldest are now 18 and almost 21 and they both have VERY strong walks with the Lord (strong enough to make me weep with joy) and the two little ones who are 8 and 10 just seem to really have it as well. I don't see it as a little "Jesus loves me, I wanna raise my hand" thing but a true saving faith that will carry them through life. I've gotta say, I'm one grateful mama.

well thats great Ann, but Ive also seen children reject it as they grow older....wanting nothing nothing to do with God & church...which leads me to believe it was superficial to begin with.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My answers are the same as yours except for #2. I was about 12 and I had been left some chores to do when I got home from school and I got mad. When I was outside a way from the house I swore an oath. The next thing that I knew, I felt guilty of what I had said and it wasn't because Mom or Dad heard me. I felt convicted and I believe it was the Holy spirit that convicted me.

Were you parents religious people?

 

[Old Union Brother]

Were you parents religious people?

We only went to church occasionally and they did not come to know the Lord until they were older. I actually baptized my mother after her confession of faith about 10 years before she died. My Dad expressed faith in the Lord when he was old and sickly he lived about a year longer.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not until they got older. I actually baptized my mother about 10 years before she died.

See thats why I cant understand free will people. I was having a marvolous time drinking & cavorting.....it was probably the most fun I ever had. I can understand a guy like Augustine who lived a similar life with the arm length, "Yes I know Lord, but not yet" ....thats human, thats masculine. Let me sow my wild oats! Then when Im ready we will talk. I kinda said that but with like a ....lets talk on my death bed. And Im trying to be sincere, life was a true joy (Sex, drugs, booze, partying & Rock and Roll). So when I hear a guy say, " yea I gave myself to the Lord....was 1972 & I took that walk" Im like "Really" why on earth would you do that? No, I had no interest....zilch! Praise God though, when He wants you, He comes after you. He completely changed my heart, my mind my very soul. I was 53 years old & He just did a series of things that knocked me over. I say this sincerely.....when He wants you, there isn't much you can do to escape it. And he is still doing it....He is no respecter of anything but His own will....and if your right with Him, your not either. He is in total control & your not, so enjoy the ride. Praise God!

 

[Zenas]

See thats why I cant understand free will people. I was having a marvolous time drinking & cavorting.....it was probably the most fun I ever had. I can understand a guy like Augustine who lived a similar life with the arm length, "Yes I know Lord, but not yet" ....thats human, thats masculine. Let me sow my wild oats! Then when Im ready we will talk. I kinda said that but with like a ....lets talk on my death bed. And Im trying to be sincere, life was a true joy (Sex, drugs, booze, partying & Rock and Roll). So when I hear a guy say, " yea I gave myself to the Lord....was 1972 & I took that walk" Im like "Really" why on earth would you do that? No, I had no interest....zilch! Praise God though, when He wants you, He comes after you. He completely changed my heart, my mind my very soul. I was 53 years old & He just did a series of things that knocked me over. I say this sincerely.....when He wants you, there isn't much you can do to escape it. And he is still doing it....He is no respecter of anything but His own will....and if your right with Him, your not either. He is in total control & your not, so enjoy the ride. Praise God!

I’m glad the Holy Spirit led you back to Him. Irresistible grace. However, I have heard this same testimony from a couple I know very well as they described to me their journey into the LDS church. They wouldn’t call it irresistible grace but the experience was exactly the same.

 

[mets65]

I've heard the same story from all religions, and I've battled the same stuff myself. I still have struggles, God convicts you but he makes you make the choice.

 

[Amy.G]

See thats why I cant understand free will people. I was having a marvolous time drinking & cavorting.....it was probably the most fun I ever had. I can understand a guy like Augustine who lived a similar life with the arm length, "Yes I know Lord, but not yet" ....thats human, thats masculine. Let me sow my wild oats! Then when Im ready we will talk. I kinda said that but with like a ....lets talk on my death bed. And Im trying to be sincere, life was a true joy (Sex, drugs, booze, partying & Rock and Roll). So when I hear a guy say, " yea I gave myself to the Lord....was 1972 & I took that walk" Im like "Really" why on earth would you do that? No, I had no interest....zilch! Praise God though, when He wants you, He comes after you. He completely changed my heart, my mind my very soul. I was 53 years old & He just did a series of things that knocked me over. I say this sincerely.....when He wants you, there isn't much you can do to escape it. And he is still doing it....He is no respecter of anything but His own will....and if your right with Him, your not either. He is in total control & your not, so enjoy the ride. Praise God!

Are you saying you never felt any conviction of sin? Did you just wake up one morning and bam you were saved?

 

[percho]

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner,was talking to someone about the Lord in a truckstop,lol

from the 1689 confession of faith;

Zenas...any such baby will be in heaven not because they were innocent,but because God had mercy upon their soul,and applied the blood of the covenant to them,giving them life eternal,repentance and faith.
The same with any persons unable to mentally be called by the word through the normal preaching of the gospel.

So God saves different ones different ways. You have named two, the very young physically and or mentally one way and others sort of the same yet because of there condition more mature we will say they have to furnish part of their new birth by believing, having faith or something?

 

[annsni]

Ann you answered your own question in this very post. If your girls got saved at 4 and 5, but were saved as babies, as you have been claiming is possible because you think that they can have faith as babies then they had to lose their salvation to get saved again.

I never said they were saved as babies. I do not believe that every baby is saved at birth or before birth but I believe that God COULD cause an infant or unborn child to have faith if they were going to die.

 

[annsni]

well thats great Ann, but Ive also seen children reject it as they grow older....wanting nothing nothing to do with God & church...which leads me to believe it was superficial to begin with.

I have seen that as well which is why we did not push our children or coach them into being saved. It was fully from them. As I said, my two older girls are now 18 and almost 21 and they are at the age when most children growing up in Christian homes will walk away from the faith yet they are far from doing so. Thank God!

 

[Iconoclast]

So God saves different ones different ways. You have named two, the very young physically and or mentally one way and others sort of the same yet because of there condition more mature we will say they have to furnish part of their new birth by believing, having faith or something?

God saves all the elect by Jesus dying as a substitute for their sins in particular. How God grants that Mercy to a person is between Him and the person.
IF God saves a person who was only conceived and alive for six days, he and he alone can say or determine how to save that guilty person, but it will always be by the Blood being applied as payment for their sins,and Jesus as Lord and their Great High Priest. That is eternal . hebrews 10:14

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Those sanctified{elect} were set apart to be perfected in Christ.Salvation is 100% of the Lord.

 

[percho]

God saves all the elect by Jesus dying as a substitute for their sins in particular. How God grants that Mercy to a person is between Him and the person.
IF God saves a person who was only conceived and alive for six days, he and he alone can say or determine how to save that guilty person, but it will always be by the Blood being applied as payment for their sins,and Jesus as Lord and their Great High Priest. That is eternal . hebrews 10:14

Those sanctified{elect} were set apart to be perfected in Christ.Salvation is 100% of the Lord.[/QUOT

I actually agree with you. I have three post in this thread with about 7 questions of which the only one answered has been by you. Thank you.
I posted this in post 51
For by grace are ye saved through faith;

Would like for several to give an answer. What does through faith mean here and is the part that pertains to the babies?

I am assuming this is saying how one is saved.

I wanted to know what people thought because I believe Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; Has to mean the exact same thing as Titus 3:5 according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Because both are speaking of how salvation were brought forth.

What I am saying is: by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; means the same thing as faith in Eph.

The washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; IS the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is what the Father and Son did not something we conger up within ourselves or something we believe. The Father regenerated the Son and renewed to him the Holy Spirit then called him his Son. This is the picture of the baptism of Jesus sequence by sequence.

Whether we are 8 minutes old or 80 years old our faith has nothing to do with if we will be born again or not. We had no part in out physical birth and we will not have a part in our spiritual birth. It truly is the gift of God.

 

[Winman]

The washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; IS the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

No, regeneration is not the same as faith. Faith means to trust, depend, or rely upon another.

Let's say you loan someone your car. That is faith. It is no longer in your possession or in your sight, but you fully expect (hope) for them to return it to you safely.

Regeneration means restoration, to restore something to it's pristine state, to renew or renovate something.

Faith in the scriptures means to trust God at his word, to depend upon it's truthfulness, to rely upon his promises.