What about the IFB Baptist group?

[InTheLight]

To be KJVO means that the KJV is the inspired infallible Word of God. They don't take that position.

This seems to be a BB definition. I've seen it as a sticky in the Translations/Versions page.

They are simply KJV preferred. I think you need to do more study on this subject. There are many on this board that are not KJVO, but at the same time reject most modern versions based on the text that they were translated from. That is a different issue.

I'm well aware of the textual differences. IMO, rejecting every version except the KJV is, by definition, King James Only. It doesn't matter the reasoning behind the policy. I think you are making a distinction without a difference.

 

[DHK]

This seems to be a BB definition. I've seen it as a sticky in the Translations/Versions page.

The definitions were framed that way by well-informed people for a reason.

I'm well aware of the textual differences. IMO, rejecting every version except the KJV is, by definition, King James Only. It doesn't matter the reasoning behind the policy. I think you are making a distinction without a difference.

I don't use mv's except occasionally for comparison. I reject them for the same reason the website said. I would be greatly insulted and offended if you put me in the same category as KJVO's. However, I think you should not derail this thread, and start a thread in the versions forum on "What is KJVOism? You need to find out before you falsely accuse people.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I ask the SBC readers here (and Tiny Tim) have you looked at Hamilton Squares web site? Brother Fall posted it up thread.

 

[glfredrick]

Legalism -
includes - certain types of dress -( more than just Modesty), no TV at home, do not believe in celebrating holidays such as Christmas, divorced men can not hold any positions, you must be in church service 5 x's per week and at lest one visitation. pastor looks at books to see how much offering you are giving. Absolutely no CCM or Southern Gospel music, Secondary separation, Pastors demands total control - ect, ect, ect.
Now, I am not saying that some IFB's have all the items stated above, but many have a mix and match.
I'm sure I missed a few.....

TC, the items you listed are the fundamentals of the faith, and those of us who are (true) Southern Baptists accept each and every one of those items on your list. But when it comes to legalism... thats a whole nother story

Salty

ps: and as Southern Baptists - we are independent, as we are NOT lorded over by a man made ecclesiastical hierarchy.

Oh Lord, you forgot playing cards and long hair!

 

[matt wade]

Oh Lord, you forgot playing cards and long hair!

---------------------------

 

[Jerome]

playing cards and long hair!

Yes, how about these prime examples of such "legalism" and "Pharisaism":

Proceedings of the 1689 London Baptist Assembly:

In the affirmative:—That it is a shame for men to wear long hair, or long periwigs, and especially ministers

Charles Spurgeon, Storm Signals:

It is a happy circumstance when a young married couple become converted to God before their little ones are able to imitate a bad example. I thank God for a father whom I know and honour; only one of all his children can recollect the time when the evening was spent in playing cards, and that one recollects the night when they were all thrown into the fire and burnt.

 

[glfredrick]

--------------------------

First, get it right... It is not "community church" ------------------it is "metropolitan church."



Third, the IFB churches (and individuals who have posted publicly what they have posted publicly on the web are not my doing, nor my churches doing. They are what they are and I am not the only one testifying against them.

That is the nature of INDEPENDENT... What's so hard about that other than the fact that you have chosen to be offended by the actions of others who carry the same means of identifying themselves as you.

 

[TCassidy]

You didn't - but what I did do was answer your question about "the darkness of IFB!" and I have been a member of such IFB churches.

Yet some IFB churches would say those standards I listed in my other post are fully Biblical fundamental truths.

and many IFB'ers will say that SBC churches are not independent.

You're welcomed
Salty

There are about 10,000 IFB churches in the US. As you claiming to have first hand evidence, acquired through membership or personal contact with all of them to the extent that you can say that the legalism you observed is characteristic of all, or at least the vast majority of them?

If so please tell me when you were a member or a visitor to the IFB church I have pastored for the past 25 years and what form, exactly, this legalism took in this church. Please be specific.

Thank you.

 

[matt wade]

First, get it right... It is not "community church" ------------- it is "metropolitan church."

According to you, you can find 20 web sites that slander IFB churches. I can find 20 that show that Community Churches support gay pastors. Therefore all Community Churches, including Sojourn Community Church, support and have gay pastors.

Second, . do you know that we have gay pastors (we do not)? If you do not, then you are a liar and you have now joined the devil as an accuser of the brethren. Want to play tough, let's...

Yes, I do know you have gay pastors, by using the same logic that you use to slander IFB churches. I'm just playing by your rules. You are the one that said being able to cite 20 web sites makes the truth.

That is the nature of INDEPENDENT... What's so hard about that other than the fact that you have chosen to be offended by the actions of others who carry the same means of identifying themselves as you.

You have chosen to be offended by the actions of others who carry the same means of identifying themselves as you (Community Church).

 

[TCassidy]

No attending movies, no dancing, no card playing, no teenagers on one-on-one dates (double dates only), no men's hair over their ears or collars, no women's skirts higher than 2" above the knee when kneeling, no guitars in worship service, music with a syncopated beat is devilish, you must tithe 10% of your time to the church, absolutely no drinking of any alcohol, being a sports fan is wrong, C.S. Lewis was an apostate, smoking cigarettes or cigars is a sin, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Please list the IFB churches I have been associated with for the past 37 years that hold to any or all of the above.

Thank you.

 

[TCassidy]

First, get it right... It is not "community church" that is the gay church, it is "metropolitan church."

Why can't you be honest? The name of the church(es) in question is "Metropolitan Community Church." See http://ufmcc.com/

Second, . do you know that we have gay pastors (we do not)? If you do not, then you are a liar and you have now joined the devil as an accuser of the brethren. Want to play tough, let's...

Yes, Community churches have gay pastors. See the URL above.

Third, the IFB churches (and individuals who have posted publicly what they have posted publicly on the web are not my doing, nor my churches doing. They are what they are and I am not the only one testifying against them.

Just as Community churches are gay churches.

That is the nature of INDEPENDENT... What's so hard about that other than the fact that you have chosen to be offended by the actions of others who carry the same means of identifying themselves as you.

Yes, why do you falsely accuse the brethren? And why do you deny the horrible sin of the Community churches?

 

[ashleysdad]

Okay, I am confused. Maybe I am missing something. I went through the website that was listed in this thread and I agree that it is a incredibly misguided at best (there IS some truth that it presents albeit very poorly). Where I am confused though is that while it claims to be IFB and it lists the IFB top 1000 sites, I did not see anywhere that said it was presented or endorsed by any specific church or churches. It actually appeared to be the work of an individual or at most a group of individuals and not part of any IFB church. Yet this website that some person (not church) put up is being used as proof positive that ALL (at least that is how it is coming across) IFB churches are like this. I am currently in a SBC church. I have been involved with IFB churches in the past, I went to a (very) small IFB Bible college in East Peoria IL. I have seen some IFB churches that are very much like that website. I have also seen and been part of IFB churches that would soundly denounce that website and have been filled with incredibly loving, rock solid Christians. The bottom line is that if we are honest there are extreme fringes in any denomination and it seems that they are the ones that get the most press, but the reality is that most IFB churchs are not that way and it is wrong to continue to blanket the whole group based on a website that doesn't even appear to be endorsed by any church. If I posted a website like that and claimed it was representative of the SBC does that in fact make it representative of the SBC? Or if I posted a website like that and claimed it was representative of any other denomination or group does that in fact make it true? Or is the truth that I as an individual posted my individual opinions and then trying to get recognition claimed some type of affiliation? I guarantee that there are IFB churchs that would embrace this website, I also guarantee that there are those that would oppose it while holding to the bits of truth that are there. You simply CANNOT issue a blanket statement against all IFBS because of this website. Doing so makes you an accuser of brethren that you don't even know.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Please list the IFB churches I have been associated with for the past 37 years that hold to any or all of the above.

Thank you.

Tom, unfortunately I can give you one right now that is about as kookie as you can get in Eastern Pennsylvania.....I will add to the list that girls cant wear sandals to picnics & camp events because the toes are exposed. Try looking at schools like The Ambassador Bible College in the Carolinas also loopie With Dr. Ron Comfort for starters. So whats that prove, that they do exist.

 

[InTheLight]

Please list the IFB churches I have been associated with for the past 37 years that hold to any or all of the above.

Thank you.

I'm not associating you with these IFB churches. It's been my experience that legalism is a common thread with IFB churches. BTW, I'm currently attending an IFB church. The only traits I've seen (so far) is no alcohol, no men shall have long hair, and KJV preferred.

I might as well ask you to please list the IFB churches I've attended that don't hold to these positions.

 

[glfredrick]

Okay, I am confused. Maybe I am missing something. I went through the website that was listed in this thread and I agree that it is a incredibly misguided at best (there IS some truth that it presents albeit very poorly). Where I am confused though is that while it claims to be IFB and it lists the IFB top 1000 sites, I did not see anywhere that said it was presented or endorsed by any specific church or churches. It actually appeared to be the work of an individual or at most a group of individuals and not part of any IFB church. Yet this website that some person (not church) put up is being used as proof positive that ALL (at least that is how it is coming across) IFB churches are like this. I am currently in a SBC church. I have been involved with IFB churches in the past, I went to a (very) small IFB Bible college in East Peoria IL. I have seen some IFB churches that are very much like that website. I have also seen and been part of IFB churches that would soundly denounce that website and have been filled with incredibly loving, rock solid Christians. The bottom line is that if we are honest there are extreme fringes in any denomination and it seems that they are the ones that get the most press, but the reality is that most IFB churchs are not that way and it is wrong to continue to blanket the whole group based on a website that doesn't even appear to be endorsed by any church. If I posted a website like that and claimed it was representative of the SBC does that in fact make it representative of the SBC? Or if I posted a website like that and claimed it was representative of any other denomination or group does that in fact make it true? Or is the truth that I as an individual posted my individual opinions and then trying to get recognition claimed some type of affiliation? I guarantee that there are IFB churchs that would embrace this website, I also guarantee that there are those that would oppose it while holding to the bits of truth that are there. You simply CANNOT issue a blanket statement against all IFBS because of this website. Doing so makes you an accuser of brethren that you don't even know.

Is this not precisely what I said in far fewer words?

 

[TCassidy]

I have also seen and been part of IFB churches that would soundly denounce that website and have been filled with incredibly loving, rock solid Christians.

But you are not allowed to say that! glfredrick says they are all legalistic and unloving and tinytim says they are "darkness." And because those two have been in every IFB church in the country and personally know every IFB member, they can't possibly be wrong. How dare you question their omniscience!

 

[TCassidy]

Tom, unfortunately I can give you one right now that is about as kookie as you can get in Eastern Pennsylvania.....I will add to the list that girls cant wear sandals to picnics & camp events because the toes are exposed. Try looking at schools like The Ambassador Bible College in the Carolinas also loopie With Dr. Ron Comfort for starters. So whats that prove, that they do exist.

Yes, we all know there are nut-jobs in all groups. The point is that tinytim and glfredrick are painting IFB, not a few isolated nut-jobs, as being as described above. Nobody has suggested these guys don't exist. We are questioning the broad-brush condemnation of all things IFB. I can find similar nut-jobs in the SBC, IFCA, OPC, etc. That does not mean I can broad-brush all SBC, IFCA, or OPC churches as legalistic or "darkness."

 

[TCassidy]

I might as well ask you to please list the IFB churches I've attended that don't hold to these positions.

But I am not condemning IFBs. I am defending the vast majority that do not practice legalism and/or pastoral dictatorship. I have never questioned your church. I have merely questioned the broad-brushing being done against IFB in general.

 

[glfredrick]

Why can't you be honest? The name of the church(es) in question is "Metropolitan Community Church." See http://ufmcc.com/
Yes, Community churches have gay pastors. See the URL above.Just as Community churches are gay churches.Yes, why do you falsely accuse the brethren? And why do you deny the horrible sin of the Community churches?

Dude, you really have a thing for gay pastors, dontcha... :thumbsup:

 

[glfredrick]

But you are not allowed to say that! glfredrick says they are all legalistic and unloving and tinytim says they are "darkness." And because those two have been in every IFB church in the country and personally know every IFB member, they can't possibly be wrong. How dare you question their omniscience!

Here is my first post:

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

And, you dislike me enough to attack, attack, attack... Thanks for proving my point multiple times over.

And again, as I asked above:

DO YOU DISAVOW YOURSELF OF THE IFB WHO ARE REPRESENTED BY THE SITE I POSTED?

Or, are they your brothers and sisters in the faith, while you rip me up?