Apparently you care. Haven't you been saying that motive is what makes something a sin?
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Is it sin to lie or kill for the right MOTIVE?
- Thread starter Skandelon
- Start date
Apparently you care. Haven't you been saying that motive is what makes something a sin?
If I do something sinful it is sinful whether you know what my heart's motive was or not.
What other people know about the motives of men has nothing to do with whether or not what those men do is sin.
What people know or understand about the motive of OTHERS should not even be in the equation.
If I buy you a box of chocolates it may appear innocent to everyone else. But if my motive is dark it is sin BEFORE GOD. Who cares how it APPEARS to everyone else?
freeatlast
New Member
can you define your understanding of motive?
Let's say you are invited to a friend's house for dinner. Your friend explains that his wife has been working all day to prepare a nice meal for you. When you eat the meal it is terrible. Everything is salty, the meat is overcooked and tough, the noodles were overcooked and soggy... It is truly a terrible meal, but to be polite you eat everything on your plate.
Now your friend looks at you and asks if you enjoyed the meal, his wife is looking on.
You cannot bear to tell the truth, because you know it would hurt your friend, and especially his wife who worked so hard to prepare the meal. You tell them you enjoyed the meal very much.
Is this a lie? Your motive is good, you do not want to hurt your friend or his wife.
I actually had this happen to me once. I was invited to supper and served barley hot dogs. They were terrible, but I ate them to be polite.
At the end of the meal my friend's wife asked how I liked the barley hot dogs. I hesitated, and she picked up on my hesitation. She said, "You really didn't like them did you?" I said, "Honestly, I didn't like them, they were terrible."
She turned at yelled at her husband, "See, I told you these hot dogs are terrible, you are so cheap!" Then she turned and told me her husband makes her buy these barley dogs to save money.
They actually got into a big argument right in front of me. :laugh:
Now your friend looks at you and asks if you enjoyed the meal, his wife is looking on.
You cannot bear to tell the truth, because you know it would hurt your friend, and especially his wife who worked so hard to prepare the meal. You tell them you enjoyed the meal very much.
Is this a lie? Your motive is good, you do not want to hurt your friend or his wife.
I actually had this happen to me once. I was invited to supper and served barley hot dogs. They were terrible, but I ate them to be polite.
At the end of the meal my friend's wife asked how I liked the barley hot dogs. I hesitated, and she picked up on my hesitation. She said, "You really didn't like them did you?" I said, "Honestly, I didn't like them, they were terrible."
She turned at yelled at her husband, "See, I told you these hot dogs are terrible, you are so cheap!" Then she turned and told me her husband makes her buy these barley dogs to save money.
They actually got into a big argument right in front of me. :laugh:
mo·tive
/ˈmoʊtɪv/ Show Spelled [moh-tiv] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, -tived, -tiv·ing.
–noun
1.
something that causes a person to act in a certain way, do a certain thing, etc.; incentive.
2.
the goal or object of a person's actions: Her motive was revenge.
3.
(in art, literature, and music) a motif.
Proverbs 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
I think I know what Luke is saying:
The act of taking a man's life: Done out of anger or envy it's a sin. Done for justice by the duly appointed magistrate, then it's a righteous act.
Making up a story: To slander or otherwise injure one's neighbor, or to pervert justice (which indirectly injures the public), it is a lie.
To mislead God's enemies for the preservation of innocent life, an act of faith. (Rahab, the Egyptian midwives . . .)
The act of taking a man's life: Done out of anger or envy it's a sin. Done for justice by the duly appointed magistrate, then it's a righteous act.
Making up a story: To slander or otherwise injure one's neighbor, or to pervert justice (which indirectly injures the public), it is a lie.
To mislead God's enemies for the preservation of innocent life, an act of faith. (Rahab, the Egyptian midwives . . .)
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
That doesn't mean that my motives aren't right if I were to enact my own judgment, which is the point in question, remember?
Hmmmmmmmm . . .
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
But then its not just motive, its also the means, which Luke doesn't allow for in his previous arguments. He only says that it is not sin if the motive is right, which is clearly incorrect.
Hey, I was going to keep quiet and thank them for the meal, but his wife asked me directly how I liked those barley hot dogs. I cannot describe to you how bad they were, it was like eating cardboard.
She caught me off guard with her question, and I was trying to figure out a nice thing to say about the meal. That is why I hesitated. But I had to be honest once she asked me.
Murder is still murder. Killing the child is still killing the child. Just because the dad here did such a grievous act, the child shouldn't be killed because of that.
lol reminds me of the time someone gave me a "veggie dog." It was terrible. I was really hungry and they were terrible. I said they were terrible too. Of course in my situation, they already knew that.
You're not listening. Motive will determine means.
And, there is nothing in what Luke said by which you can make his meaning so narrow.
Yes, those were the worst hot dogs I've ever eaten. They didn't even look right, they were very dark brown. They were the most bland, tasteless hot dogs I've ever eaten.
Hey, we agree on something. Hot dogs must be made of meat! :thumbsup:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Lev. 5:17 "If a person sins and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands, even though he does not know it, he is guilty and will be held responsible.
And what about the men who reach out to catch the ark from falling off the cart? Wasn't their motive good?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
I am listening, you are not understanding. Right motive alone doesn't equate to sinless deed, it must include right means. A man who believes abortion is evil (right motive) kills the abortionist (wrong means). You believe abortion is evil (right motive) you vote for a pro-life candidate (right means).
That is an excellent example from scripture Skan, that was Uzzah.
2 Sam 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.
6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Uzzah reached out to keep the ark from falling off the cart, but God struck him dead because he was not a Levite priest. Only Levite priests were allowed to touch the ark. Uzzah's intention and motive was good, but it was still sin.
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A self-centered motive is still there. Anything done in love fulfills the law, even if it is otherwise "unlawful," as in the case of the shewbread given to David and the men with him.
Well, again, you wrench trifles from their contexts. Why was reaching out to catch the ark wrong, and would it be wrong today? Why weren't the Philistines killed who placed the ark on the cart in the first place?
The event, once analyzed, was one of a pagan and self-centered form of worship. Uzza's motive was not pure.
No, Uzzah's intentions were very good, he did not want the ark to fall off the cart. But he was not allowed by the Law to touch the ark.