Romans 8:28-30

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

All men have a soul/spirit, so God gives them understanding, but not all will take advantage of this understanding, IMHO.

John 6: 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Look closely at this verse right here. Jesus stated that every one which seeth the Sonand believeth on Him, may have eternal life. I truly believe that Jesus was talking "in the now"(meaning in His days here on earth), when He spoke this. Have any of us seen Him? I haven't, but I believe with everything in me, He will raise me up in His likeness when He comes to gather His Bride!!

What I was getting at, is that if they were to be conformed in Christ from eternity past(decreed so by God), then those who He passes over, who are they conformed to? I understand your statement, and that we came from the cursed ground(our flesh), but our soul came from God. So our flesh is cursed from the start because of our being made from the cursed ground. However, our soul came directly from God, and the curse wasn't placed in us until after we "we knew to do good, but did it not, and to us, it was sin."

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

I am thankful, Bro. Tom, that we can agree, at least, in part.

Correct. There are some that may never-ever-hear the gospel through a preacher, but I do think that God will speak to all who "come to know to do good, and doeth it not."

To me, hearing is the qualifier, here. As I have stated in previous posts, one can go to church their whole life, and hear the gospel message preached. But if God doesn't open their eyes, they will not understand. Now, God can talk to someone, and a preacher isn't anywhere around, and they truly understand what He states, when He states it. The thing that makes me scratch my head in this, is that I thought my DoG Brethern would actually agree with me on this. I think that God can save outside the gospel, meaning, God can save someone without a preacher being present. Like I stated, I thought more would be in agreement with me, but......

And some did believe what Paul preached to them. Look, in reality, God really doesn't need us to accomplish His will. He is God, and can do anything He chooses to do, except He can't lie. For whatever reason, He chose man to do His will, such as preach the gospel, comfort those who have lost loved ones, visit those who are in the hospital, nursing homes, the "shut-ins", etc. If God wanted to, He could have picked "Israel" right up out of Egypt, and placed them in the "promised man". But, for whatever reason, He chose Moses to lead them out, by His hand.

Bro. Tom, they are condemned solely by unbelief. They failed to believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those which diligently seek Him(Heb. 11:6). I think they were presented the gospel(whether through preaching or directly from God talking to them via the Spirit) and failed to believe, whereas, I guess you believe God passed over them and left them in their already condemned state(is this correct, I don't want to put words in your mouth, Brother)?

You know, Bro. Tom, in the end, it will be all over. Then we'll get to look at our KING!!! I am ready to go, praise His sweet name!! I can't wait to lay my crown at my Master's feet, and thank Him for what He did for one little lost lamb.

Here I am, Lord here I am,
I am the one the Father left the fold to find.
There were ninety and nine,
And He left the fold to find.
One little lost lamb,
And Lord here I am!!

I am the one the Master went to find, and when He found me, He put me up on His shoulders, carried me back, and placed me in the fold!!! And those already in the fold, didn't "buck up" at me. They welcomed me in with open arms!!! I want to go home, Lord!!!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Bro. Tom, God's power is THE Gospel, and THE Gospel is God's power unto salvation.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

It takes God to remove the veil from our eyes to see our lost condition. It takes God to talk to the "inner man", and through this talk, He gives him/her understanding, that without Him, they will die lost. Just because He talks to His creation, doesn't mean they will listen and obey Him. But He does show us that we are lost without Him.

Correct. I know many on here may not agree with my position on this subject, but I do believe I have supported it with scriptures.

I have never stated, nor even insinuated that this is the only way God saves His creation. That is why they send missioniaries, and why we evangelize, etc. A dear old friend of mine told me his conversion story one time. He has since went to be with the Lord a little over a year ago. He said he was going through his yard one day, with a bucket in each hand. God came and showed him his lost condition. He said he threw his buckets down, and hit his knees, and prayed, and God saved him right there. He lived for the Lord for over thirty years, if I remember correctly. That right there is a great example of THE Gospel saving someone.

Again, Bro. Tom, I didn't say this is the only way God saves.

Here is a better question, Bro. Tom. How can they "hear", except God enlightens their minds to comprehend, their ears to truly hear, and open their eyes to see their lost condition? They can hear ten million sermons, and if God doesn't give them understanding, they will not understand one word of what was preached. So, in essence, they can hear the "gospel" and/or THE Gospel, and die lost. One must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them which do diligently seek Him(Heb. 11:6).

Well, obviously, I like mine better!! LOL :tongue3:

Though I am in no way a "hardsheller", I can see where this can be misconstrued with DoG doctrine. I just can not comprehend where He would command all men everywhere to repent, and then not afford them the time, and or place to do so. Even as wicked as Jezebel was, He gave her time to repent of her evil deeds. So someone in a remote place of the world, I truly believe, will be given the opportunity to repent, whether its through Him showing them directly, or through the preaching of the Gospel.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

That's fine, Brother!! I like to hear all sides and what they have to say on any given subject!! :thumbs:

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with this statement!!! When God reveals Himself to someone, that is THE Gospel right there!! Whether they hear it from a God-called preacher, or directly from Him!! Either way, He is behind it.

When the Lord came to me and showed me lost, ruined, undone, bound for a devil's hell, without Him, there was no preacher present....there was no choir singing, "Just as I am", etc. I was on a schoolbus, heading home, minding my own business, when He caused me to see how vile I was. When the Lord saved me, I was standing in the hospital lab where I worked at, and again, there was no preacher present, no invitation from a preacher, no choir singing, "Just as I am", etc. I had been going to church, wanting to be saved, but I didn't know how. When I turned it ALL over to Him, He took over my life!!

No, dear Brother, no. The Agent behind the writing is God. No matter how good the sermon, unless God opens the eyes, ears, and heart, it will not add up to a hill of beans.

Well then, the deaf/mute is born destined for hell, then. In this scenario, the baby got thrown out with the bath water.

In this far-fetched scenario, this two year old dies, and goes to be with the Lord!!

I completely agree!!

You are putting too much faith in man and not in God with these scenarios, Brother. I agree with Romans 10:17, but the revelation of that hearing of the gospel comes from God, and not man. Our faith is bestowed to us by our Creator, and not the creation.

Again, a lot of emphasis on man, and not enough on God. Y'all state the sovereignity of God, and then turn right around, and say that to be saved, they MUST HEAR a preacher!! Sounds like a "man exhalting" doctrine there, Brother Archangel.

(((((AMEN!!!!!))))) Romans 1:16


I am sure you will disagree with a lot of this post, but I do enjoy the civil posts we have with each other. I pray that none of these responses seem to be "snippy", because that is not my intent, Brother!! Love you!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Look, Brother, I never stated that my belief was the only way God saves, but I do think He has saved many without the assistance of man.

No, Brother, I never misunderstood you. I have read on here MANY TIMES that God doesn't need any help from us, in order for Him to save. Now, it's being purported that without a preacher, you can't?? This makes God a synergist in your example, Brother Archangel. I am a synergist, FTR. But meaning that we have to answer the "call" when He calls, and without us accepting the gift, He will leave us in our lost state.

The deaf/mute only way of hearing the gospel, is directly from Him. They can not hear what the preacher says, but I know that in some places, there is someone there "signing" what the preacher is saying.

Now, we are starting to make some headway, finally!! Read your history books. The native americans did believe in an afterlife. When they killed an animal, they would leave their heart there, thinking they would roam the woods in their spirit. I don't know if they believed in God, but it kinda looks like they did. They believed in the "happy hunting ground", and I don't see how they could have "conjured" that up all by their lonesome.

I am intriqued(sp?) by this bolded statement you made here, Brother. When God comes to His creation, and shows them their lost condition, and without Him, they will die lost, He just shared the gospel with them at that very moment. I believe in "going into all nations and preaching the gospel", but to confine God to saving in that mode only, shortchanges His power, glory, effacious grace, etc. I guess we will agree to disagree. Love you Brother!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Bump!!! To keep this ball rolling!!

 

I am also waiting to hear someone reply to this. There is not one man out there than can preach on his own. They must have God speak through them, if they preach anything of value, whatsoever.