is The Bible THE Chosen Means God Regenerates His Elect?

[Winman]

That the unregenerate can believe on Jesus is shown in John 4.

John 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is this not the Christ?

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him FOR the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that I ever did.

Here we are told that many Samaritans believed on Jesus, and we are told what CAUSED them to believe, THE SAYING OF THE WOMAN. No magic here. But we see these men did not believe in a vacuum, they were already knowledgeable of the promised Christ of scripture. So these people's hearts and mind had been prepared by God's word. This is God's grace that has appeared to all men, God's word. So these people were actively looking for the Christ, and this woman's testimony convinced them that Jesus was the promised Saviour they had been looking for.

God's word is revelation and enables faith.

 

[jbh28]

That the unregenerate can believe on Jesus is shown in John 4.

John 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is this not the Christ?

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him FOR the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that I ever did.

Here we are told that many Samaritans believed on Jesus, and we are told what CAUSED them to believe, THE SAYING OF THE WOMAN. No magic here. But we see these men did not believe in a vacuum, they were already knowledgeable of the promised Christ of scripture. So these people's hearts and mind had been prepared by God's word. This is God's grace that has appeared to all men, God's word. So these people were actively looking for the Christ, and this woman's testimony convinced them that Jesus was the promised Saviour they had been looking for.

God's word is revelation and enables faith.

A regenerate person is a saved person. There is no need of a regenerate person to get saved, they already are.

 

[DHK]

A regenerate person is a saved person. There is no need of a regenerate person to get saved, they already are.

I agree also; but not all on this board agree with you.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

It is your misunderstanding of 1 cor 3 that is wrong. Your belief in the carnal mind,and carnal christian heresy is mixing you up here.



God never lies,and my theology is just fine as it knows that the carnal are the unsaved. Your false ideas posted in the closed carnal christian thread[which others offered you correction on,which you do not accept]....will not allow you to correctly understand it.

My theology is not mixed up. Paul distinctly calls these Christians at Corinth carnal. They are carnal Christians. Now if you cannot reconcile other Scripture like Romans 8 and perhaps James 4:4 to what Paul is saying then your theology is dead wrong. Paul isn't wrong. He is not lying. Why would you suggest otherwise?[/QUOTE]

DHK....here are some responses that were given to you fron the closed thread;

When he says in v. 1 "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh (carnal), as to babes in Christ...." he is not acknowelging they are "carnal Christians" but only that he must speak to them as if they are carnal/men of flesh. He is saying this to shame them, on the one hand, and examine themselves on the other.

Their actions contradict their profession of faith. That's why Paul mentions it.

He then likens them to "babes in Christ". Instead of flatly accusing them of being unsaved (men of flesh/carnal), he allows for the possibility that they are simply immature Christians who have yet to be taught the mysteries of God by Holy Spirit.

so you answered this way;

Paul doesn't use a simile here, or any other figure of speech. He plainly tells the Corinthians that they are carnal. You are yet carnal. You are not spiritual. You need to be fed with milk. You are not ready to be fed with meat. Why? Because you are still carnal; acting like immature Christians who have not grown up. They were carnal Christians.

If they were carnal they were carnal in the heart. No where does the scripture teach christians are carnal.

then you said;

A couple of comments.
First, context defines a word. You have taken the word "carnal" out of Romans 8 and tried to define its usage in 1Cor.3 by its usage in Romans 8. That doesn't work. Define carnal in the context of 1Cor.3, and stick to the context that Paul is using in 1Cor.3, not in Romans 8. That is one of the primary rules of hermeneutics

the sermon I posted and the two articles provided answers for you.
To say that Romans 8 has nothing to do with Paul's teaching in corinthians does not make sense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/wd_index.htm

scroll down and click on the carnal christian heresy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.apuritansmind.com/christi...lChristian.htm

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/ar...d=37|37|90

some more information for all .

 

[Winman]

A regenerate person is a saved person. There is no need of a regenerate person to get saved, they already are.

Nonsense, you cannot be saved until you first believe.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This verse is plain as day and from Jesus himself. It was this woman's faith that saved her. Faith was the cause, salvation or regeneration was the effect.

You cannot produce one verse in all of scripture to support regeneration precedes faith, while there are dozens that clearly show faith precedes regeneration (salvation, life).

Why anybody would cling to obvious false doctrine that is clearly refuted by MUCH scripture is beyond me.

 

[jbh28]

Nonsense, you cannot be saved until you first believe.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This verse is plain as day and from Jesus himself. It was this woman's faith that saved her. Faith was the cause, salvation or regeneration was the effect.

You cannot produce one verse in all of scripture to support regeneration precedes faith, while there are dozens that clearly show faith precedes regeneration (salvation, life).

Why anybody would cling to obvious false doctrine that is clearly refuted by MUCH scripture is beyond me.

You know, this made me laugh. It's very evident that you didn't read what I actually wrote but just said" hey, a Calvinist said something so I must disagree."

I agree also; but not all on this board agree with you.

thanks DHK for actually reading what I wrote.

 

[Iconoclast]

Nonsense, you cannot be saved until you first believe.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This verse is plain as day and from Jesus himself. It was this woman's faith that saved her. Faith was the cause, salvation or regeneration was the effect. You cannot produce one verse in all of scripture to support regeneration precedes faith, while there are dozens that clearly show faith precedes regeneration (salvation, life).

Why anybody would cling to obvious false doctrine that is clearly refuted by MUCH scripture is beyond me.

In your understanding,she does not need the Spirit of God to give a new heart,or new life. This is a denial of the new birth.She did not need a saviour, just some information. New birth was not essential.[in your scheme]

 

[DHK]

My theology is not mixed up. Paul distinctly calls these Christians at Corinth carnal. They are carnal Christians. Now if you cannot reconcile other Scripture like Romans 8 and perhaps James 4:4 to what Paul is saying then your theology is dead wrong. Paul isn't wrong. He is not lying. Why would you suggest otherwise?

DHK....here are some responses that were given to you fron the closed thread;


so you answered this way;


If they were carnal they were carnal in the heart. No where does the scripture teach christians are carnal.

Nothing like calling Paul a liar, eh? Paul said in three times in those two verses that the Corinthians were carnal. Do you have a problem with unbelief? Just because you cannot reconcile your theology with the straight clear cut statements of Paul doesn't mean you have to infer that Paul is wrong and you are right. That is the height of arrogance.

the sermon I posted and the two articles provided answers for you.
To say that Romans 8 has nothing to do with Paul's teaching in corinthians does not make sense.

My statement was along the lines of context defines the word. Romans 8 defines how "carnal" is used in Romans 8 which may not be the same as it is used in 1Cor.3. Surely you understand this basic hermeneutical principle. Even conceding your point, Romans 8 says: "The carnal mind cannot please God." We agree. That doesn't mean that the Corinthians are unsaved; they are carnal Christians, and carnal Christians do not please God. They need to get their life right with God. Do you have sin in your life? Has there been sin in your life at any point today, or have you lived a perfect life? 1John 1:9 was written for a purpose.

Two of your links are not available. The first one I don't have time to sit and listen to a sermon. Besides that I know that if the premise is wrong the entire sermon will be wrong. That sermon is flawed from the very beginning. How do I know this. I just did some basic checking.

We follow the biblical teachings of the Protestant Reformation known as the five solas and the doctrines of grace;

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/aboutus.htm

It is Calvinistic to the core.
Why would I listen to error to come to a conclusion that is in error.
What was the title: "The Carnal Christian Heresy"?
Perhaps one needs to write a sermon about the heresy of not believing in carnal Christians. I meet them every day. Paul speaks of them in 1Cor.3:3,4. Not to believe what Paul says is to deny the Word of God. How could any person do that?

 

[preachinjesus]

Have you ever noticed that the uplifting threads get very few posts? Sad commentary on ourselves.

That's why some of us stay away from them.

 

[Winman]

You know, this made me laugh. It's very evident that you didn't read what I actually wrote but just said" hey, a Calvinist said something so I must disagree."





thanks DHK for actually reading what I wrote.

Oh, I have seen what you say many times, you say regeneration and faith occur at the same moment. You are attempting to ride the fence, to agree with what you know scripture clearly says, and hold the doctrines of Calvinism at the same time. It can't be done, because Calvinism clearly teaches a man must be regenerated to have faith, while the scriptures teach you must have faith to be regenerated. This is a direct contradiction and both cannot be true. Some Calvinists (and I have shown direct quotes in the past) say a person can be regenerated for years before they believe. This is nonsense, because justification follows faith. Until you first believe you are DEAD in trespasses and sins, and God's wrath abides upon you. You cannot be alive and dead at the same time.

You can't have it both ways. You can try, but it will never work.

 

[jbh28]

Oh, I have seen what you say many times, you say regeneration and faith occur at the same moment. You are attempting to ride the fence, to agree with what you know scripture clearly says, and hold the doctrines of Calvinism at the same time. It can't be done, because Calvinism clearly teaches a man must be regenerated to have faith, while the scriptures teach you must have faith to be regenerated. This is a direct contradiction and both cannot be true. Some Calvinists (and I have shown direct quotes in the past) say a person can be regenerated for years before they believe. This is nonsense, because justification follows faith. Until you first believe you are DEAD in trespasses and sins, and God's wrath abides upon you. You cannot be alive and dead at the same time.

You can't have it both ways. You can try, but it will never work.

I don't need to have it both ways. Regeneration and faith happen at the same moment. You don't have people regenerate before they believe and you don't have people believing that have not been regenerate. I'm not doing any "riding" of a fence. All I'm doing is looking at Scripture as a whole and seeing that both events occur at the same moment. So, you said that until you believe you are dead. Ok, and I can say that until you are regenerated, you are dead(eph 2).

but you still didn't read what I posted because you wrote against regenerate preceding Faith and I said nothing of the sorts. All I said was that a person that is regenerate is saved. I'm not sure how one could disagree with that. It's very obvious you are anti-Calvinist and so you jumped the gun. You are more concerned to be against Calvinism that discuss the subject at hand. Your comments are very apparent. to that.

 

[Iconoclast]

Nothing like calling Paul a liar, eh? Paul said in three times in those two verses that the Corinthians were carnal. Do you have a problem with unbelief? Just because you cannot reconcile your theology with the straight clear cut statements of Paul doesn't mean you have to infer that Paul is wrong and you are right. That is the height of arrogance.
My statement was along the lines of context defines the word. Romans 8 defines how "carnal" is used in Romans 8 which may not be the same as it is used in 1Cor.3. Surely you understand this basic hermeneutical principle. Even conceding your point, Romans 8 says: "The carnal mind cannot please God." We agree. That doesn't mean that the Corinthians are unsaved; they are carnal Christians, and carnal Christians do not please God. They need to get their life right with God. Do you have sin in your life? Has there been sin in your life at any point today, or have you lived a perfect life? 1John 1:9 was written for a purpose.

Two of your links are not available. The first one I don't have time to sit and listen to a sermon. Besides that I know that if the premise is wrong the entire sermon will be wrong. That sermon is flawed from the very beginning. How do I know this. I just did some basic checking.

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/aboutus.htm

It is Calvinistic to the core.
Why would I listen to error to come to a conclusion that is in error.
What was the title: "The Carnal Christian Heresy"?
Perhaps one needs to write a sermon about the heresy of not believing in carnal Christians. I meet them every day. Paul speaks of them in 1Cor.3:3,4. Not to believe what Paul says is to deny the Word of God. How could any person do that?

The sermon posted answers the question .it goes into the text in the greek,and clearly lays it out. Your refusal to listen is on you then. You do not listen because you know it will expose your error.
I did not call Paul a liar. I said this;

If they were carnal they were carnal in the heart. No where does the scripture teach christians are carnal.

Your false charge of arrogance is because you cannot face your error.You twist my statement and project your own arrogance toward me.
You are another one who in trying to resist the biblical truths of the grace of God....[calvinism] you resort to trying to discredit anyone who can expose your error. When an answer comes your way ,you turn from it.
You make the excuse that the links do not work.....i will post them for you now,,,then what will your excuse be?

Carnal Christian?
Are you one? Is there such a thing?


http://www.apuritansmind.com/christianwalk/MartinANCarnalChristian.htm

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/full.asp?id=37|37|90

 

[Winman]

I don't need to have it both ways. Regeneration and faith happen at the same moment. You don't have people regenerate before they believe and you don't have people believing that have not been regenerate. I'm not doing any "riding" of a fence. All I'm doing is looking at Scripture as a whole and seeing that both events occur at the same moment. So, you said that until you believe you are dead. Ok, and I can say that until you are regenerated, you are dead(eph 2).

but you still didn't read what I posted because you wrote against regenerate preceding Faith and I said nothing of the sorts. All I said was that a person that is regenerate is saved. I'm not sure how one could disagree with that. It's very obvious you are anti-Calvinist and so you jumped the gun. You are more concerned to be against Calvinism that discuss the subject at hand. Your comments are very apparent. to that.

You act like you and I have never debated before. I think I have debated you personally more than any other person here at BB, although that might not be true for you.

I say this as a friend, but you like to play games. It is true that regeneration and faith occur at the same moment. But what is not true (and you know this) is that regeneration is the cause and faith the effect. That is absolutely false and refuted by literally dozens of verses. What is true as I just showed in Luke is that faith is the cause and regeneration the effect.

That overthrows Total Depravity as Calvinism holds it and you know it.

You might be fooling some, you might be fooling yourself, but you are not fooling me.

Time to quit playing games.

 

[jbh28]

You act like you and I have never debated before. I think I have debated you personally more than any other person here at BB, although that might not be true for you.

I say this as a friend, but you like to play games. It is true that regeneration and faith occur at the same moment. But what is not true (and you know this) is that regeneration is the cause and faith the effect. That is absolutely false and refuted by literally dozens of verses. What is true as I just showed in Luke is that faith is the cause and regeneration the effect.

That overthrows Total Depravity as Calvinism holds it and you know it.

You might be fooling some, you might be fooling yourself, but you are not fooling me.

Time to quit playing games.

It doesn't throw total Depravity at all. The cause is God. To take credit for it by saying my faith is the cause is sad. It's the channel which God gives us grace...sure ("through faith") but the cause is God.

 

[DHK]

The sermon posted answers the question .it goes into the text in the greek,and clearly lays it out. Your refusal to listen is on you then. You do not listen because you know it will expose your error.

It doesn't expose my error, for I know that I am not in error in that subject. If you show me the color red I won't say it is blue. I know better. This is what you are doing. You are denying the very simple and straight forward statement of God, and no matter who you reference, if they also call red, blue, they are also just as deceived as you. The Bible says what it says. If you deny it you have a problem with unbelief (or belief).

I did not call Paul a liar. I said this;

If they were carnal they were carnal in the heart. No where does the scripture teach christians are carnal.

Which is not what the Scripture teaches. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
1Cor.3:3,4 teaches it.
James 4:4 teaches it.
1John 2:15,16 teaches it.

You do not believe the Scriptures but a man made theology. I pity you.
BTW, where in 1Cor.3,4 does it say "in the heart." Paul tells the plainly that they are carnal. Why don't you believe them?

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:1)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (1 Corinthians 3:3-4)

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (1 Corinthians 9:11)
--Carnal Christians reap carnal things.

You are denying the Word of God by clinging to a false theology?
Why do you do this? You have no answer to these Scriptures.

Your false charge of arrogance is because you cannot face your error.You twist my statement and project your own arrogance toward me.
You are another one who in trying to resist the biblical truths of the grace of God....[calvinism] you resort to trying to discredit anyone who can expose your error. When an answer comes your way ,you turn from it.

Answer Scripture with Scripture not with links.
I have given you Scripture. Can you refute it without personal attack.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

Answer Scripture with Scripture not with links.
I have given you Scripture. Can you refute it without personal attack.

The links answer with scripture,if you look and listen you might learn something.

These scriptures you post do not teach what you say.You do not understand them correctly.
Which is not what the Scripture teaches. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
1Cor.3:3,4 teaches it.
James 4:4 teaches it.
1John 2:15,16 teaches it.

if they are carnal....they are not saved
listen to the sermon, before you resist it.
you say answer scripture with scripture, but you are not understanding the verses you post. I cannot read them for you.
read the articles and listen to the sermon...

are you saying that when james says this;

4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

that they are christians???

you say;

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (1 Corinthians 9:11)
--Carnal Christians reap carnal things

you completely miss this verse... he is speaking about getting paid;

8Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

you do not understand these verses

 

[DHK]

DHK,

The links answer with scripture,if you look and listen you might learn something.

One out of three of your links worked. I can't read them.

These scriptures you post do not teach what you say.You do not understand them correctly.

So you say. You can jump up and down and affirm that they do not teach what I say. But for all your yelling and stomping you have said nothing that would convince me to the contrary. Simply denying the verse, and saying Paul doesn't mean what he said, is not very convincing.

Which is not what the Scripture teaches. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
1Cor.3:3,4 teaches it.
James 4:4 teaches it.
1John 2:15,16 teaches it.

if they are carnal....they are not saved

That is not what the Bible teaches. You have failed to demonstrate that from the Bible. You just assert it. Asserting a lie does not make it a truth. It still remains a lie.

listen to the sermon, before you resist it.

I don't have time to listen to other people's sermons. Can't you convince me?

you say answer scripture with scripture, but you are not understanding the verses you post. I cannot read them for you.
read the articles and listen to the sermon...

I give you Scripture. I admit I gave you one verse out of context. The others I stand by, and you haven't answered a single one of them. You just want to refer me to books, sermons and other resources. What a cop out! How lame is that! That is not the nature of debate. I have a library of over 2,000 books. I also have the internet at my hands. That is not why I come here--to be referred to other sources. But if you have nothing more to say, no refutation on the Scriptures I gave you then I will let it drop.

you completely miss this verse... he is speaking about getting paid;

you do not understand these verses

You are right about 1Cor.9, I did not look at that context carefully enough. But you are dead wrong about the other references I gave you.

are you saying that when james says this;
that they are christians???

In the Book of James, James is speaking to Christians. The theme of the book is Practical Christian Living. Throughout the book he uses the word "brethren" in each chapter. "Brethren" refers to Christians, "believers in Christ." Let's look at chapter four and see whether or not he is speaking to Christians.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. (James 4:3)
--Speaking to carnal Christians about prayer, he tells them why their prayers are not answered. They are not praying according to the will of God, but rather selfishly--that they may consume, what they ask of God, upon their own desires. They were carnal, selfish, worldly Christians, not unlike many of the Christians I see today.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)
--Now he hits the nail right on the head. Adulterers and adulteresses are used in an allegorical or spiritual sense, just as it was in the OT. When Israel went after other gods like "Baal" then Jehovah called it adultery, for she was already in a marriage relationship with Jehovah. We are the bride of Christ. When the Christian becomes the friend of the world, flirts with the world, they are committing adultery for they are as if they are already married to Christ.
--God hates worldliness in the believer. Whosoever shall be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. That statement is directed to the believer, not the unbeliever. There is no possible way that that verse refers to unbelievers. James is addressing Christians throughout the epistle. See the context.

Move on to the next verse, verse 5:
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5)
--Note that James includes himself in this verse with the pronoun "us." It is an epistle to believers. He speaks of the "Holy Spirit that dwells in us." That does not speak of unbelievers, but believers in Christ. The Scripture speaks here to us, believers, as does verse four.
So here we have in chapter four James addressing Christians on these topics:
verse 3--prayer.
verse 4--worldliness.
verse 5--the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Yes James 4:4 speaks of believers not unbelievers!

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

You do not understand the passages.Sorry but you do not.Not all Israel was of Israel , so to appeal to ot apostates for your doctrine is not wise.
When the apostles speak in this way they are warning false professors not to be like ot apostates.

29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

God likens the apostates to sodom and gommorah, in contrast to the elect remnant.

you posted this;

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:1)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (1 Corinthians 3:3-4)

yet you do not notice these parts of the verses;
could not speak unto you as unto spiritual
and walk as men

canadady answered this early on,,,you resist it...you miss the whole point.
If you were interested in truth you would listen to the sermon i posted,and i could post dozens like it.But if you have no desire to learn I cannot help you.
We have told you you are wrong and provided correction for you.If you do not want the truth i cannot help you..It is lazy to say you cannot listen to a sermon. I think you know it will expose your error so you are avoiding them.
All 3 links work they will not let me post them saying they are too long.
type them in fresh and they will come up

 

[psalms109:31]

It is unfortunate that people who are Christian do still think with a carnal mind instead of the Spirit within the words of God that have given us life by pointing us to life Jesus Christ.

We are still living in the flesh and a constant fight to make it submit.

Do not lean on your own understanding but trust in the Lord.

Who can save us from this body of death praise be to Jesus.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

You do not understand the passages.Sorry but you do not.Not all Israel was of Israel , so to appeal to ot apostates for your doctrine is not wise.
When the apostles speak in this way they are warning false professors not to be like ot apostates.

I understand them perfectly. Your problem is not understanding, but a straight denial, one of unbelief. The Scripture is plain. "You are carnal." That has only one meaning. What is there not to understand? Paul calls these believers carnal. They are carnal Christians, and you deny this. It has nothing to do with Israel. It has nothing to do with unbelievers. He was addressing the church of Corinth, not specific individuals. "You are carnal." Therefore, he says, I cannot feed you (the entire church) with meat, but rather with milk. He is addressing the entire church. Why would he be addressing false teachers. Is he going to waste his time feeding the false teachers in the church milk and not meat. Your argument makes no sense.

God likens the apostates to sodom and gommorah, in contrast to the elect remnant.

He is addressing the believers in Corinth, not apostates. You give no proof or evidence that he is addressing false teachers or apostates. That is your imagination speaking. Where is your evidence. Let the context speak for itself. When does Paul feed milk or meat to apostates. Your assertion is ridiculous.

yet you do not notice these parts of the verses;
could not speak unto you as unto spiritual
and walk as men

That is precisely the reason that they were carnal Christians isn't it?
They were not spiritual and did not act like it. They acted carnal because they were carnal--carnal Christians. The Bible comes right out and says it, and you disbelieve it because you are hung up in a false system of theological system which won't allow you to believe the truth, though it stare you right in the face.

canadady answered this early on,,,you resist it...you miss the whole point.

"You are carnal." What did I miss. It wasn't the truth of what Paul was saying.

If you were interested in truth you would listen to the sermon i posted,and i could post dozens like it.But if you have no desire to learn I cannot help you.

Who has no desire to learn.
You fail to listen to the Bible itself. A direct statement--"You are carnal."
How much more direct can Paul be? And yet you fail to believe the very words of God! This is truly amazing!

We have told you you are wrong and provided correction for you.If you do not want the truth i cannot help you..It is lazy to say you cannot listen to a sermon. I think you know it will expose your error so you are avoiding them.

I don't have to listen to a sermon when I have a Bible in front of me--one that you fail to read--apparently. "You are carnal"--it has only one meaning--The Christians in Corinth were carnal--carnal Christians. Why do you question the veracity of the Word of God?

All 3 links work they will not let me post them saying they are too long. type them in fresh and they will come up

Why waste my time. I can do better things. You don't accept the teaching of the Word of God. A simple statement. "You are carnal." Three words! And you can't seem to understand them. This is truly amazing Icon.