DHK,
Now we are getting somewhere.If you could now understand these commentators correctly...they are saying these corinthians being addressed were acting out of character.....like unsaved men......in this instance of division and strife over which pastor has the best gifts. They were acting carnally here. It does not teach that there is three kinds of men. It no where says that christians are of the flesh as a settled characteristic as you believe.
Two kinds of people: the saved and the unsaved.
Among the saved: spiritual and carnal.
Among the unsaved: the outwardly evil and the outwardly self-righteous, like Cornelius, the rich young ruler, etc. Both need to be saved. Cornelius needed to be saved as much as the thief on the cross.
Among the saved: Both the spiritual and the carnal need to go through a process of sanctification in their life. All do. Some proceed at a faster rate than others. It is evident that the Corinthians were still "babes" in Christ. Paul could not speak unto them as "spiritual." That does not mean that they were not Christians. It is here that you err. They were acting in the flesh, but still saved.
Do you believe one can lose their salvation? Do you believe that eternal life is only temporary? Do you not believe in OSAS? These are the doctrines that you are attacking. They had come to Christ. Here is what Paul calls them:
And I,
brethren, could not speak unto you
as unto spiritual, but
as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:1)
--In this one verse he calls them brethren, a term only used to address believers in Christ. Then he uses the word "spiritual" a term also used to indicate their sanctification, their growth after they had been saved.
Then he uses the word "carnal" to indicate the type of life they were living, a worldly life, the life of a Christian who has not matured, one who has not grown in the Lord, who is not living a sanctified life. You have all three of these terms used in one verse. He definitely refers to them as believers in Christ. Furthermore if you go to the first chapter you will find other phrases where he addresses them as Christians. This fact is undeniable.
Many Christians, believers in Christ, act as unsaved men. That doesn't mean that they are unsaved. Christians aren't perfect. In fact many of them "live in the flesh." Many of them aren't "spiritual" at all. It is those type of Christians that Paul was addressing.
Romans 8 makes it abundantly clear as well as Galatians 5 which the commentators go to.
He is rebuking them.....not describing them. No one whose life can be described as of the flesh is going to heaven anytime soon.
Your statement is contradictory. In order to rebuke them he must describe them. The people he rebukes for worldliness, for living in the flesh, for being carnal,
must be carnal, fleshly, worldly Christians, or else he would not rebuke them for it. This only makes sense. Else why would he be rebuking them??
There are no christians that are as you say"living worldly lives".That it heretical,denying that the old man has been crucified,romans 6.
That is only your opinion not backed up by Scripture. You give a reference but it does not back up the statement you just made. In fact it contradicts the plain statements that Paul made in 1Cor.3:1-4.
It is a denial of the santifying work of the Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit only sanctifies the believer as we allow him to do it.
There are believers that struggle with sin, and some that deliberately give in to sin because they like it. They are backslidden and live carnal lives, just like the Corinthians did. Not everyone is spiritual. If you are a perfect spiritual Christian that never sins I am happy for you, but you live a lie, if you say that:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)
--Please don't tell me you don't sin. We all do. And those who continue in sin for even a short period of time are living a carnal life. If that did not happen, Hebrews 12:5-11 would never have had to be written. Who is it written to? Those who have backslidden, have lived carnal lives, need to repent, need to be chastised for their carnal lives, etc. Why is chastisement necessary if a person is not living in sin; not living a carnal life? Why is the passage even necessary?
While I am at it, I will slay another of your golden calves,,,,a backslider is an apostate.....not a "carnal christian".
Turn,
O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: (Jeremiah 3:14)
Return,
ye backsliding children, and I will
heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God. (Jeremiah 3:22)
--The Lord, speaking to His children, (His own--the saved) describes them as backslidden, not as apostate. They are not apostate, they are simply not in a right relationship with the Lord; the same as backslidden and carnal Christians are not in a right relationship with the Lord.
Backslidden does not equal apostate. You are wrong in your assessment.
A christian who commits a sin, can act carnally....but there is no such person who can be characterized as carnal in there heart....your so called "carnal christian" is an unsaved church member.
That is not what Paul said. Paul said, "You are carnal," speaking to the Christians in the Corinthian Church. You have that passage to deal with and cannot deny it. All you offer here is a philosophy that denies the truth presented in 1Cor.3:1-4.
Catch your breathe and re-read the fine quotes you just offered..that is what they are saying.
You re-read them. They say exactly what I said. They act like the unsaved, but they are saved. In other words they are carnal Christians. Every one of them attest to that truth. Why are you so blind to this truth?
Then you say this:
"Many Christians act like the unsaved"
Maybe and maybe not...
Dhk.....many professed christians may act like the unsaved.....yes. and indeed they may be unsaved, that is my exact point.
Who set you up as a judge of the heart?
Did Lot act as a Christian? Did Samson?
Yet the Lord said they were just. They are found in Hebrews 11, the chapter on "men and women of faith."
Furthermore, the Bible says,
And delivered
just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that
righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds (2 Peter 2:7-8)
--This man, who offered his two virgin daughters to be raped by homosexuals all night long, is called just and righteous by God. He is said to have "his righteous soul" vexed from day to day with their unlawful deeds. That means from day to day he lived a carnal life with the inhabitants of Sodom. It was God that declared him saved--just and righteous--inspite of his ungodly life.
You are in no position to judge the heart--to tell who is a Christian and who is not? Who made you a judge over another person? You are not God.
In Mt7:21-24 Jesus tells us that multitudes will be told depart from me, you who practice iniquity.
What iniquity?
What kind of iniquity? What level of iniquity? How much iniquity?
Where do you draw the line? It is at one sin or two?
Are you the Roman Catholic priest and determines which is a mortal sin and which is a venial sin?
How do you know the heart Icon? Who are you to judge??
Have you sinned according to 1John 1:8,10. Then how do you know you won't be there?
This is exactly why this teaching as the notes in the scofield bible lay it out is heretical and spiritually dangerous.
Scofield isn't always right; but the Bible is. And you are treading on dangerous ground.
The fact is the each of the commentators use the phrase.....like the unsaved[in other words ,out of character]
Christians can act like the unsaved. Many of them do.
Consider:
The greatest threat to the church is: "the moral outsider and the immoral insider."
--I believe that. It is a true statement. There are many moral people that are unsaved that act and live out their lives far better than those who call themselves Christians in our Baptist churches today. And they very well may be Christians--carnal Christians. You do not know their heart and cannot make that judgment.
Exactly...thats why Paul is telling them to repent....they are acting or behaving as unspiritual THat does not mean there are people who can live this way undisciplined by God!
All Christians need to repent. What was 1John 1:9 written for?
Notice the words
acting as unspiritual. They act as unspiritual or unsaved. That doesn't mean they are. Understand the entire quote.
(2 Peter 2:7-8)