Abc 20/20

[Jkdbuck76]

Maybe seminaries should teach about this kind of thing if they already don't. In Indiana, if ANY adult knows about a child being abused, they are obligated by law to report it. Each citizen in Indiana is legally considered a mandated reporter. In Mississippi, you're looking at a $5,000.00 fine + jail time if you do not report child abuse.

At the end of the day, I wish that there were no such thing as child molesters. I wish we lived in a world where this kind of a discussion did not happen. This is why I look forward to the next life.

And I hear that in Vietnam, they take their convicted child molesters out to a field and put a bullet in the back of their head---so much cheaper than prison. Good idea.

 

[idonthavetimeforthis]

It's a shame that this stuff takes place period.

 

[idonthavetimeforthis]

We were taught that Southern Gospel was the only Godly music... and even on mission fields in Africa, we should make them sing Peg McKamey songs..

I've met some that believe that Peg & Southern Gospel are worldly & carnal - not quite as bad as CCM, but almost in their minds.

 

[Grace&Truth]

How much Sampling do you want?

They were "kind" to BJU for not tying this up into one nice tidy bow. The "sub-culture" you deny flows directly from Greenville, SC. Phelps was a golden boy in the late 70's, he is currently vice chair of the FBF, directly tied back to BJU. His friend, Matt Olsen was also a golden boy at BJU, same years!. Current pastor of Trinity, BJU grad. Marquette Manor, one of the other abuse cases covered - VanGeldren family and now Canady - BJU all the way. Probably kind of them not to bring "the Wilds" into this as well. You know, having Phelps lead a youth ministries seminar subsequent to this being made public. For those of you who are just finding out about this, this has been known since last spring (2010), the mainstream media has just picked it up.

IFBx church I attended and was on staff following graduation - pastor (BJU grad) directly notified by three witnesses that a BJU grad father was molesting his daughter - to quote "that's family business, the church has no business there" If it were the 2000's instead of the 1980's that pastor would be in jail today. Sub-culture, My Eye.

Seeing a pattern here? This coverup, circle the wagons behavior goes straight back to their teachings from BJU. I speak from first hand knowledge of these folks. Phelps was my Sunday School teacher at BJU in the late 70's. Olsen was my hall monitor in 1978. Dave Canady (current pastor of MM) was the hall monitor on the other side of my hall - Graves dorm. VanGeldren's son was my hall monitor at BJU in 1981.

No, there is no sub-culture here (insert sarcasm icon here), quite frankly, it is not a sub-culture - it is the mainstream guiding principle these guys learned from BJU.

Sorry to ramble but this still makes me so angry that they (BJU and their ilk) can separate from folks over silly stuff like music but will circle the wagons to protect their own.

What is your purpose in Slandering the Van Geldrens and Pastor Canady? Neither one was involved in this. They are both good Godly men. Pastor Canady came after the fact and did a great job at trying to clean up the mess. Also, he has not been the Pastor at MM for the last year and a half (or so), he is now the Deputation Director for BWM. Please get your facts straight. Again, please explain why you would bring up names in a slanderous manor as this when they were not involved?

 

[Grace&Truth]

When I see stories like this, I KNOW they are true. I lived it.

I find this statement very disturbing. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that you KNOW this to be true based on your experience and not on the facts, is that correct?

 

[matt wade]

I find this statement very disturbing. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that you KNOW this to be true based on your experience and not on the facts, is that correct?

Yes, of course that is what she is saying. She is saying that all IFB are evil, child abusing, sin enabling establishments. She says this because she had an abusive father and blames his problems on the church. You know, if it wasn't for IFB churches, her father would have been a saint!

Yes, the above is a harsh criticism of abcgrad, but her continual harshness against all IFB churches deserves a harsh response. If you don't like the harshness of it, put on your big boy or big girl pants and deal with it (or just stop broad brushing all IFB because of your bad experiences with a handful).

 

[jaigner]

So, yeah, the scars run deep. When you live like that and have PTSD from the abuse, the IFB pastors tell you to "forgive"...

This is a very compelling post, and thanks for sharing your story. As a former homeschooler, I have seen many nutcase pastors who are pseudo-popes for their congregations and have encouraged the abuse of children.

I never had anything that bad happen to me, but I do know that those scars run deep. PTSD is a real thing. The fact that these sorts of things are happening under a bunch of idiot pastor dudes is hugely detrimental to all.

I'm not saying all IFB are all like this. Not at all. But I know it exists.

 

[dcorbett]

I am IFB...as you know....

I find it interesting that there are Independent churches that have joined an association! We are called "independent" because we have the blessing of the authority of the LOCAL church, and no organization runs us.

So I don't consider them INDEPENDENT Baptists at all.

 

[jaigner]

So, based on your experience, all fathers are abusive. Please let me know when you are going to start ranting against all fathers and insist that they are all abusive.

She was not ranting against all fathers, although most of the IFB fathers I have met have been emotionally (if not physically) abusive.

Your tone is abusive, as well.

Yet you are a member of a Baptist organization that thinks women pastors are OK, right? Talk about false doctrine.

Many devoted Christians believe that this is okay with all of their hearts. It's not false doctrine. Pelagianism is false doctrine. Arianism is false doctrine. Gnosticism is false doctrine. Woman in leadership is not false doctrine.

I would encourage you to read about the early church heresies to gain a better idea of what constitutes false doctrine.

 

[matt wade]

She was not ranting against all fathers, although most of the IFB fathers I have met have been emotionally (if not physically) abusive.

You are correct. Do you want a prize? I obviously know she wasn't ranting against all fathers. That's sort of my point. Maybe you need better reading comprehension skills?

Let me lay it out for you simple like, ok? She has an experience with a handful of IFB churches. Based on her limited experience, she characterizes all IFB churches in a certain way. I assert that she should also characterize all fathers based upon her limited experience with her abusive father. It's only fair that if she slanders one group of people that she should slander another.

Of course, you've gone ahead and taken the additional step for us and slandered fathers within IFB churches. Congrats to you for achieving that goal!

 

[dcorbett]

This is a very compelling post, and thanks for sharing your story. As a former homeschooler, I have seen many nutcase pastors who are pseudo-popes for their congregations and have encouraged the abuse of children.

I'm not saying all IFB are all like this. Not at all. But I know it exists.

Yea, because the Southern Baptist preacher who decided I was fair game at age 15 is one of those nut cases....but I don't blame all Southern Baptists for what HIS sin entailed....and I haven't met a IFB Pastor yet that wasn't totally dedicated to soul-winning and church planting.

Debbie Mc

 

[matt wade]

Many devoted Christians believe that this is okay with all of their hearts. It's not false doctrine. Pelagianism is false doctrine. Arianism is false doctrine. Gnosticism is false doctrine. Woman in leadership is not false doctrine.

You'll also tell me that many "devoted" Christians believe in evolution and the big bang theory. You'll also tell me that many "devoted" Christians think that the flood, Jonah in the fish, and the parting of the red sea are simply "literary devices". I'll tell you that all those "devoted" Christians are fools.

 

[dcorbett]

You'll also tell me that many "devoted" Christians believe in evolution and the big bang theory. You'll also tell me that many "devoted" Christians think that the flood, Jonah in the fish, and the parting of the red sea are simply "literary devices". I'll tell you that all those "devoted" Christians are fools.

AMEN! Women should not be preaching.

 

[abcgrad94]

I find this statement very disturbing. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that you KNOW this to be true based on your experience and not on the facts, is that correct?

I'm saying I firmly believe this victim is telling the truth, based on my personal experience. I'm saying I have major problems believing anything an IFB pastor or church would say on the subject because I've personally seen cover-ups and I believe it to be in many IFB churches. The "facts" presented to the public may or may not be the truth, depending on the personal giving them.

 

[abcgrad94]

Yes, of course that is what she is saying. She is saying that all IFB are evil, child abusing, sin enabling establishments. She says this because she had an abusive father and blames his problems on the church. You know, if it wasn't for IFB churches, her father would have been a saint!

Yes, the above is a harsh criticism of abcgrad, but her continual harshness against all IFB churches deserves a harsh response. If you don't like the harshness of it, put on your big boy or big girl pants and deal with it (or just stop broad brushing all IFB because of your bad experiences with a handful).

Matt, is is no secret that I am prejudiced against most IFB colleges and churches. It took courage for me to post my story here, as I knew some, like you, would be more offended by my prejudice than the fact that the abuse took place and someone is still hurting from it.

The fact that you are angry, not at the sin, but at the prejudice that has resulted from the sin, speaks volumes to me and to others reading here.

 

[menageriekeeper]

You know, as much as some here want to claim it, IFB churches are not islands unto themselves. They have similarities. Their doctrines are similar. Their methods are similar. Their pastors graduate from certain, similar schools. Even the the titles on their signs are similar: "______ Independent Baptist Church".

And guess what? Their failings are similar. If you don't want to be lumped in, find another title to use or better yet, start a new trend and set up policies that protect your children and women from abuse (men need protection to a lesser degree, but this should be offered as well). Quit teaching that abuse should tolerated in marriage on the off chance the abuser will get saved. Quit teaching that divorce means you are a low quality/unholy Christian (or worse not one at all!). And above all, quit elevating your standards to works that apply to one's salvation!

btw, I would say the same thing to people who attend SBC churches but dislike being lumped into the group. If you don't like it, get out! The SBC, which I'm a member of, is not a perfect organization. We have problems we have to work on as well. Different problems perhaps, but problems non the less.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Matt, is is no secret that I am prejudiced against most IFB colleges and churches. It took courage for me to post my story here, as I knew some, like you, would be more offended by my prejudice than the fact that the abuse took place and someone is still hurting from it.

The fact that you are angry, not at the sin, but at the prejudice that has resulted from the sin, speaks volumes to me and to others reading here.

Sister, please get off this thread. And don't even read it any more. It's making me upset just to read it, so I know that it's causing you pain.

There are certain titles of threads on the BB that when I see now, I don't even click on them. Not because I am "right" and others are "wrong", but because I know that I am going to get upset. This thread is one of them starting now.

Peace to you today.

 

[kristensdaddy]

What is your purpose in Slandering the Van Geldrens and Pastor Canady? Neither one was involved in this. They are both good Godly men. Pastor Canady came after the fact and did a great job at trying to clean up the mess. Also, he has not been the Pastor at MM for the last year and a half (or so), he is now the Deputation Director for BWM. Please get your facts straight. Again, please explain why you would bring up names in a slanderous manor as this when they were not involved?

Sorry if Canady isn't there any longer. I'll stand corrected. But if you will stand corrected - It would be Libel, not Slander - but being only my personal opinions and thoughts, it is neither. Anyway, maybe you missed it but Marquette Manor was prominently featured on the 20/20 report so yes, they do come into the equation. I still want you to notice that they all have the same common denominator - BJU. Well, except for Schaap, he is just an ranting dolt.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I just wish that godly people would stop trying to defend sin in their camp (whichever one it be) and instead root it out and destroy it.

20/20 did us all a service. It brought an admitted problem out into the open.

The question here is not- did ABC did something bad? The question is- will godly people stand up and do the right thing by protecting the innocent. Protecting the innocent MUST take precedence over protecting our 'badge' (IFB, SBC, etc), ministry, job, or reputation.

I sat for years under a man who was one of the IFB heroes of the 70's and 80's. All along he was a self-admitted child molester. He was protected by his deacons and staff. I was never aware of this during that time (although some strange events occurred that in retrospect should have been more telling.) I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has the holy Spirit could be party to such a cover-up.

It's time for judgment to start at the house of God. Let's clean our own houses so we don't need the world to do it for us.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Well, except for Schaap, he is just an ranting dolt.

QFT.:thumbs: