If Total Depravity is true, why did Christ need to hide his message in parables?

I think you are correct. The matt passage does seem to show that pedertmind election is not the deciding factor but the hearing of the word and personal choice to accept or reject is.
It really is an interesting passage and even seems to place all the burden on man, even the burden to get to the lost and tell them.
Mat 11:21-24 (KJV)
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

 

Because, 'it must needs be'. It was the time for it. 'That generation' of Christ's day was 'the flock of slaughter' of Zech 11:4-13. And parables (riddles, dark sayings) was what 'The Prophet' fed that flock of slaughter. They weighed for His hire thirty pieces of silver, He fed them riddles. Besides, the Song of Moses (DT 31:19- ch 32) makes it plain about 'that generation', they weren't His children (Dt 32:5), and any seeming return or repentance on their part would have been feigned; like John the Baptist said to them, “Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” Mt 3:7. 'The Prophet' had no intention of warning 'the flock of slaughter' of the wrath to come, but to His disciples He expounded all things:

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

 

I gave it in post #25.

 

I just saw this. I would like to commend you an an interesting topic. Great question! Below is the answer.

The answer is in the Trinity itself and in the sovereignty of God and his purpose of election and predestination.

God is a God of unity and never lies when he works he works in unity Jesus the Son could not preach the gospel clearly to people without the sincere attempt at saving them and he doesn't fail because if his attempt is sincere then the Holy Spirit will regenerate that person and that is because the Father elected and predestined them in eternity past.

Just like God predestines things to be done because of prayer, he also predestines regeneration to take place during the hearing of the gospel for those who are elected to salvation when the time is right.

In this case Jesus spoke in parables because he was dealing with an overall plan of salvatin for only the elect. Part of that plan was to take the gospel truth to the elect gentiles. In God's plan it is best to do that in part because of unbelieving Jews.

He consigned the Jews to disobedience that he might have mercy on all peoples.

Any of them who believed and repented of their sins would be saved. The very fact that Jesus did indeed speak in parables and did indeed exclude them from believe shows that they were either not elect at all, or were simply not predestined to be saved at that particular time. Salvation is of the Lord and only happens during his time.

Romans 11:32 ESV
32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

 

Agreed. The time had come for Japheth to dwell in the tents of Shem. Many would come from the east and the west and recline with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the sons of the kingdom would be cast forth into the outer darkness: there would be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

....from the wrath that was to come upon that generation:

.... Save yourselves from this crooked generation......Acts 2:40

And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. Acts 3:23

Amen.

 

Sure. It's a thread that shouldn't go off topic. I just noticed it though. Good idea for a thread.

God works in a unified way. If Jesus was to speak to them plainly showing them clearly who he was with the intent to bring them to faith, then they would hav surely come to faith because the Holy Spirit would have regenerated them because of Christ's intent and Christ's intent would only have been because the Father had elected them. The entire Godhead works in harmony in salvation.

Now, had Christ, not intended to bring them to faith and simply plainly told them the plain understandable truth about himself then their condemnation would have been multiplied for their inevitable rejection of him.

So the reason Christ spoke in parables was so that only his elect would understand and believe, and those who didn't believe had a lesser condemnation placed upon them. So it was in part an act of mercy.

JOhn 8:43-47 ESV
43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Not at all. This passage actually supports total depravity and supports the theology of the Trinity and the mercy of God.

As explained IF Jesus intended to bring them to faith they would have certainly come to faith because the Godhead works in harmony. IF Jesus did not intend to do that but simply intended to speak the gospel plainly they would have understood it and rejected it multiplying their condemnation.

If he showed mercy to every soul ever then there would be no one in hell and universalism would be true, but that can't be the case because the bible is clear that hell is real and people will be there.

He is speaking of the mystery of the salvation of the Jews. He will have mercy on all nations and all nations have been consigned to disobedience.

Romans 11:25-32 ESV
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

 

Indeed if Christ intends to save someone they will be saved because he never fails.

It doesn't say might. In Luke it uses the word "may" but not in the context of possibility but permission. Matthew doesn't use the word at all.

If Christ were to intend to save them the Spirit would regenerate them because the were indeed elected by the Father. The Godhead works in harmony. The Spirit isn't going to effectually call anyone that isn't elect. Christ doesn't intend to save anyone that isn't elect. The Father elected the elect to adopt into his family the Son and the Holy Spirit cooperate in that plan.

We see that that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit work in harmony everywhere they are mentioned. They are three distinct persons in one divine being. There is no one verse that gives a detailed portrait of the Trinity but there are many that together reveal the doctrine.

What happens in eternity is justice. We know that each will be judged according to their works. Some will have more condemnation than others. There will only be justice in hell, never injustice or unjustice.

Yes, as usualy God does things for multiple reasons and speaking in parables is one of those things he does for multiple reasons.

As stated he didn't say "might" and it has been explained that there is less condemnation for those who are not exposed.

Romans 5:12-13 ESV
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

This shows that sin is counted. So there are some cases like speaking in parables that are an act of mercy to the reprobate.

The elect understand because they are reborn children of God. They understand if it is a parable or not a parable. I have already answered above.

There are many reasons they perish. The perish because they are predestined to perish. They perish because they are evil. They perish because they reject the word. They perish because they are sinners. They perish because they are not holy....etc

So the conclusion is this:

1 Assuming the Jews who heard his voice were reprobate:

Christ spoke in parables because he did not intend to save those particular Jews yet he did not want to heap further condemnation upon their evil heads. So he was being merciful.

2. Assuming those Jews who heard his voice were elect:

Christ spoke in parables because it was not time for them to understand the gospel and be regenerated yet.

 

No, no. You haven't missed any to my knowledge.

We just had some threads that were closed before we could hash them out thoroughly.

I was not saying you were avoiding anything. I don't see that as your practice at all.

I just wanted us to continue our useful discussion on the problem of evil and omniscience.

 

LOL, that is funny. I'd druther he'd took some Sovereign Grace Theology though, but, who knows?

 

He is a Bama “Roll Tide” fan—so you can’t expect 2 much from him---lol—(I went to Auburn btw)—

 

Question

On the topic of parables:

25 These things have I spoken unto you in dark sayings: the hour cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in dark sayings, but shall tell you plainly of the Father.
26 In that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you;
27 for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came forth from the Father.
28 I came out from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go unto the Father.
29 His disciples say, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no dark saying.
30 Now know we that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? Jn 16

This was from the Farewell Discourse, so evidently He had used 'the parabolic method' to teach up untill the end. In verse 25 He says 'the hour cometh' when He would drop the parables and speak to them plainly. A 'mere' four verses later the disciples are remarking about how He was no longer speaking in dark sayings but was speaking plainly.

Question: In v 25, was 'the hour that cometh' intended to mean the short time span between vv 25 & 29? Or was Christ referring to an even later time?

 

As you know I disagree. I believe all men is all types of people. For "all men" to be every soul that ever lived then that would lead to universalism. It also is impossible given that we know that faith comes from hearing and there are and have existed in the past many people who lived and died without ever hearing the gospel.

Acts 28:27 ESV
27 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed;
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

Matthew 13:14 ESV
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“‘You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.

Mark 4:12 ESV
12 so that
“they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.”

I prefer the ESV because of it's textual accuracy and readibility. The NIV is loose.

Here is a god link where you can try the various translations against the various greek manuscripts and the latin vulgate.

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/

God works salvation in only his elect. Any permision or logical work of salvation in them is always done in the harmony of the Godhead in the context of election.

We don't know a lot about hell. I showed you where sin is counted. You have seen that all will be judged by their works. What makes you think that hell is the same for everyone? The one thing we realy know about the punishment of the reprobate is that is it just, holy and good. All of heaven will rejoice in God's judgements becuase they are righteous.

As stated it's not black and white. There are a multiplicity of reasons for everything God does. As I told you if Jesus spoke the gospel plainly to them with intent to save them then they would repent and be healed because the Godhead works in harmony.

Since he did not do that it is apparent he did not want to save those at that time.

If a person is elect a time will come during a gospel call when he is effectually called by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit that leads to faith and repentance that leads to life as a man is justified after repentance and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and adopted into the family of God after justification.

He explained the parable because there is more to understanding than just understanding savingly. For a multitude of reasons God decreed that he would explain that to them because it is better that way.

As we spoke of before God in his plan of election has decreed that things be worked out correctly in time so they will all take place. So indeed that is a reason he didn't want them to embrace him at that point.

I didn't dismiss that. I explained the Godhead works in harmony a few times now. He spoke in parables because he did not mean to save them at that time. Many conclude, myself and John Macarthur among them, that he did that also to minimize the condemnation of the reporbates among them.

That is why we believe that he spoke in parables as stated earlier, 1. That he didn't want to regenerate them and didn't want to tell them plainly who he was and what he was about because if he did that with intent to save it would of course happenand he didn't want that for many good reasons. 2. To limit the condemnation of the reprobates that were there.

That is the answer to your question.