Created to Be His Help Meet..

[MamaCW]

Has anyone read this book by Debi Pearl? I'm currently reading it right now, and personally think its a great book and very straight to the point

Just thought I'd start a thread here since there hasn't been one in a while?

Any other Christian women's books you'd recommend?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Has anyone read this book by Debi Pearl? I'm currently reading it right now, and personally think its a great book and very straight to the point

Hi, MamaCW -

I don't think I've "talked" to you before. HA!! Anyway, I'm Scarlett O.

Mama, I just can't recommend this book or any other book by Debi Pearl or her husband Michael.

Honestly, when you compare her assertions about men and women with what the Bible says about men and women, her opinions are sorely unBiblical. Beginning with the title. There is such no word, in the form of a noun, in the Bible as "help meet". The Bible says that God said that He would make Adam a "help" "meet" (or suitable or like) him. "Help" and "meet" are two different words and two different parts of speech.

A wife's role is "help" not "help meet".

Anyway, I've discussed this book before with women elsewhere.

I don't care for her name-calling. Here are some things that she calls women in her book: “cheap office wench”, “cheap office hussy”, “lazy, complaining wife,” “cranky, demanding leech”, "dumb cluck", “skinny swine”, “rebellious”, or “hillbilly ugly, which is worse than everyday ugly”

I don't care for the fact that she says that if a wife is being abused by her husband that it is the wife's fault for not being submissive enough.

Page 79: “A Command Man who has gone bad is likely to be abusive. It is important to remember that much of how a Command Man reacts depends on his wife’s reverence towards him. When a Command Man (lost or saved) is treated with honor and reverence, a good help meet will find that her man will be wonderfully protective and supportive. In most marriages, the strife is not because the man is cruel or evil; it is because he expects respect, and is not getting it. When a wife plays her part as a help meet, the Command Man will respond differently. Of course, there are a few men who are so cruel and violent that even when the wife is a proper help meet, he will still physically abuse her or the children. In such cases, it would be the duty of the wife to alert the authorities so that they might become the arm of the Lord to do justice.”

Page 263: “Lady, you were created to give glory to God. When God puts you in subjection to a man whom he knows is going to cause you to suffer, it is with the understanding that you are obeying God by enduring the wrongful suffering. And when you suffer wrongfully, as unto the Lord, you bring great glory to God in heaven.”

That's all I will mention, even though I have SCORES of problems with this book. I am giving you a link to a husband/wife team who read the book from cover to cover with their Bible next to it and discovered profound inadequacies from unBiblical viewpoints in her teachings to wives.

http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/2007/09/introduction-main-concerns.html

I'm sorry, Mama, to have to give this book a thumbs down.

 

[glfredrick]

I'm not a woman (duh!) but my wife and I have both read the book.

Some good (really!) points, and some that take things too far, IMHO.

 

[jaigner]

The word implies "completion," not merely helper as we would understand the word.

Essentially, both genders are the completion of the other. This does not place women in any subordinate, subservient role.

 

[jaigner]

Oh, and this reeks of the "men want respect, women want love" nonsense. The two are inseparable.

Respect without love is abuse. Love without respect is self-serving.

 

[DiamondLady]

I have read and thoroughly enjoyed Debi Pearl's book. The word Help Meet is translated from the word Ezer and means, basically, right arm. I know there are many women who consider her book heresy and think she advocates women being doormats. I disagree heartily. She advocates women standing up and being the help meet they are created to be instead of sitting on the sofa, watching soaps, reading romance novels and doing nothing and then wondering why their husbands pay them no attention.

I also have read Cindy Schapp's three books, Meek and Quiet Spirit, Silk and Purple and A Wife's Purpose.

I will say that I think, depending upon whether you are a liberal, fundamental or conservative Christian, will color you views on these books, as will your definition of equality and submissiveness. But then, those things will also color your view on other subjects as well.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Scarlett gave an excellent answer, so I'm only going to add one thought:

Where is the book "Created to Love Her as Christ Loved the Church"?

When we get that one written, then I'll consider reading more of the one in the OP. As it was my copy hit the burn pile before I got past the first chapter.

If the above makes me a liberal, I'll go ahead and lay claim to the title. I've been called worse.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I have read and thoroughly enjoyed Debi Pearl's book. The word Help Meet is translated from the word Ezer and means, basically, right arm. I know there are many women who consider her book heresy and think she advocates women being doormats. I disagree heartily. She advocates women standing up and being the help meet they are created to be instead of sitting on the sofa, watching soaps, reading romance novels and doing nothing and then wondering why their husbands pay them no attention.

I will say that I think, depending upon whether you are a liberal, fundamental or conservative Christian, will color you views on these books, as will your definition of equality and submissiveness. But then, those things will also color your view on other subjects as well.

DL, there are HOSTS of women who DON'T watch soaps, DON'T read romance novels, DON'T sit around all day on the sofa and they STILL live with grief from husbands who do not treat them like Christ treated the church.

DL, I'm taking acception with your last statement.

I do not find Debi Pearl's book abhorant because I am "liberal". In fact, I am not liberal. I find her book abhorant because there are page after page after page .... ad nausem......where she is teaching unBiblical truths.

This isn't about liberal vs. conservative.

It's about are we as women going to listen to Debi Pearl or are we going to listen to God? If you want to go point by point with some details from the book, I will. If you don't that's fine.

And....................

Sister, in no Hebrew lexicon on the planet are you going to find that "help" and "meet" means "right arm." Sorry.

The word "help" and "meet" are the Hebrew words "ezer" and "kenegdo". Two separate words. Not one independent word.

The word "ezer" (pronounced ay-zer) literally means one who "relieves, protects the one in need of help". It comes, according to all the studies that I have done, from a more primitive root word which has a idea of "defending, surrounding, relieving".

The word "help" is in the Bible over 125 times. But, the EXACT Hebrew word that is used for Eve, "help" or "protective relief" is found 21 times in the Bible. Twice for Eve. And 16 of those times for God, Himself.







Here are some of my particular favorites.

• Psalm 121:1 - "I will life up mine eye unto the hills from when cometh my help."
• Psalm 33:20 - "Our soul waits for the LORD; for He is our help and our shield"

Does this mean that Eve was superior to Adam because God describes Himself with the same word that He described her with? Of course not, that's silly. But it does show how powerful the need for her was in Adam.

"Kenegdo" or "meet" is only found once in the Bible and it used for Eve. It literally means "against" as in "opposite" as in "counterpart". Adam and Eve were different - but in a good way - a counterpart way. She was the ONLY creature that could be his "good" counterpart. Just look at their sex organs. Completely opposite - yet completely made one for the other - to complete the other. The same could be said about the personality, the make-up of the brain, and more.

When God said, "It is not good that man should be alone. I will make a help meet for him", He was not implying that the "help" was inferior. He was not deeming Eve to be an assistant, a household appliance, a "gofer", or a person who just created as an afterthought to be at Adam's beck and call. Adam and Eve BOTH had the same directive from God in Genesis 1:28.

He was not pointing out the deficiency of the woman. He was pointing out the deficiency of the man. Adam was created by God. And Adam was "good". God made him perfectly. From the way God made his broad shoulders, his brain, the reproductive organs, and his taller height - it was ALL VERY good. Then where was the man's deficiency? It WASN'T in his nature. That was good. It was in his state of being. He was alone. And God, Himself, said that was NOT good.

When Adam saw Eve for the first time, he saw her as EXACTLY what God intended. "A relief; a protective help that is a perfect counterpart". He said, "At last, at last, bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh". He did not say, "Good, I need some help around here. Pick up the banana peels, lady!"

Debi Pearl equates the word, "help" and "meet" as the definition of submission. That isn't what "help" and "meet" mean.

And her definition of submission is NOT one of as the church follows the head of Christ.

Her definition of submission is one of bending over and taking whatever he chooses to dish out. (I didn't make that up - see the quote below).

Honestly, DL, have you REALLY read the whole book? Did you REALLY thoroughly enjoy the unBiblical truths?

According to Debi and Michael Pearl - it doesn't matter what the husbands gives the wife - a fist in the face, a knife in a pregnant belly (yeah! read THAT chapter and her advice to the abused woman!! :BangHead, love, indifference, adultery (read THAT chapter again and see her advice on what to do when you husband is addicted to porn and/or has sex with other women :BangHead, kindness, gentleness, or scorn ....... you are to "take it" in silence.

Page 262 of the book (and this was written by her husband).

The servant is not given the option of deciding that the master is not acting within the will of God and therefore should not be obeyed. It is acceptable with God (God's will) for the underling to suffer wrongfully and take it patiently.

You will surely wonder, "why is it the will of God for the underling to suffer at the hands of an unjust, and perverse authority?" Two reasons are obvious, one of which we have already stated. First, the chain of command must remain intact, even to the point of allowing some abuse. The other reason is introduced in verse 20 - glory. We were created by God and placed upon this earth to express his glory (Ps. 8:5, Is 43:7, Rom 2:7, Heb. 2:7). Jesus did not live his life in ease for his own pleasure. He lived and suffered for the glory that was to follow (1Pet. 1:11).

​

Why???

Because she asserts that it DOESN'T take a Godly husband to create a "heavenly marriage", but it does take a wife who will submit "Mr. Command Man" (as she calls him).

The exact quote is (from page 30)

"It doesn't take a good man, or even a saved man to have a heavenly marriage. But it does take a woman who is willing to honor God and by being the kind of wife God intended." - Debi Pearl

Wow, where's THAT in the Bible. The husband bears NO responsibility in making a marriage work or making it Godly. That's kind of creepy, don't you think? Completely lets husands off the hook.

Her book is FULL of such teachings. And none of it is Biblical.

And it doesn't matter if she said a handful of things that are true.

I'm not going to take a cookie where someone put a couple of chocolate chips and about 100 tiny piece of dog poop in the recipe and pick the cookie apart looking for the chocolate chips. The dog poop has PERMEATED the entire batch.

I'll pass, thank you.

 

[MamaCW]

All of you have made great points.
And hello! to you too Scarlett
I definitely respect your opinion of the book, and can definitely see how you would feel this way.

Although, yes, some of her points are a little much, she also makes some great points.I don't agree with the name calling either..but then again, I'm not innocent of ever calling a girl dumb for dealing with abuse (not trying to make a point about abuse..just the name calling)...

I guess I take the things I don't necessarily agree with, as a grain of salt. And apply that which I do to my life.

The example given page 262 may seem a bit much with the servant, master example to some. But i can see how that can be applied in a healthy manner when it comes to relationships...

let me give you 2 examples....

My mother and my father...they have the most UNHEALTHY relationship ever...my mom has dealt with verbal abuse from my dad..I think he is soo wrong on sooo many levels for the way he's talked to her..and he's cheated on her twice.. (once an "emotional" relationship and the 2nd time an actual physical relationship)..and recently she did the same with some random guy ..

anyone who meets my father would think he's the coolest, fun loving person ever....and being that i've lived with them both almost all my life..i know first had what they are doing wrong..especially now that i am a wife, and one that follows God's will as best as i can...

first off lets remember that the only acceptable grounds for divorce is adultery..as stated in the bible...

i recently told someone i know to be a little smarter about what she wants from the relationship with her "fiance" (i put quotes because theyve been engaged for like 8 years..and it doesnt seem to be going anywhere although she's pushing it ..)...her fiance is my brother in law..he is verbally abusive with her..and she always tries to come to me for advice..although she obviously doesnt want to take it.. i tell her..if he's like this with you NOW that you arent even married..you cant really expect a wedding ring and marriage certificate to change that...but once you are married..you are stuck with him (i dont see marriage as being "stuck".but in her case..yes she would be..trust me..if you've seen their relationship..you'd understand)... so she isnt innocent of the abuse though..she badgers him constantly about going to see him *she has spina bifida and doesnt drive..he can barely hold on to his paycheck let alone keep gas in his car)...and he gets angry...lashes out at him, and she comes right back at him..i personally think they are crazy..but thats because i dont understand how someone can take so much abuse from someone who they arent married to...

anyway... i tell her..if she is dumb enough to marry him then she is going to have to suck it up and still respect him...by that i dont mean "bending over and letting him do as he wishes" as stated... i mean not try to lash back out at him, or defy him , etc...she needs to be the bigger person..

with my parent's example.. my mom has brought alot of his anger on herself...now i know this isnt the case with everyone.. but with my mom..she has..again.. i dont agree at all with how he responds ...."be angry but do not sin" should apply..but he sins..with his mouth..big time.. and its something that has affected myself and my 2 other sisters..my mom is not at all submissive..she wants to be in charge..she has a major power trip.. and is very controlling..and she doesnt do the things a wife should do..keeper of home, etc etc..

she doesn't understand 1 cor 11 verse that states that man wasn't created for woman, but woman for man...

so i ran off completely with extreme examples ..sorry.. i do "talk" alot lol..

but she has some good points.. if a woman marries someone who disrespects her.. that doesnt give her the get out of jail free card to be disrespectful or to excuse her from her responsibilities in the home.. both my mother and this girl has told this time me "why should i respect him if he doesnt want to respect me?"...umm.. because God tells you to..duh...

Debi pearl goes overboard in my opinion putting the blame on the women ALLLLL the time.. and calling them names.. but if you try to look at some of the things she says in light of what the bible says.. they make perfect sense..

my pastor says this in terms of submission..what it is, is one equal, submitting to the other equal, for the glory of God...

No woman should have to deal with abuse...but in those cases I think they should seek help from a pastor, counselor...but still be submissive and respectful to their husbands...

just from what i've seen at home..if my mom had been more respectful to my dad (and i'm talking about bare minimum respect), she would have saved herself ALOT of abuse...but then again..you cant expect 2 people who both have never followed God's commands in the bible, to have a healthy godly relationships..

on another note, someone mentioned the Cindy Schaap books, and I finished A Wife's Purpose before starting this book...great book also..i'm going to be reading those others next!

 

[MamaCW]

ah! one more point..

Eve was created to be a suitable HELPER for Adam..but remember.. that because she caused him to sin..her consequence was basically to be under his authority

Genesis 3 16 ---Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Genesis 3 16 ---Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

let me give my two cents on this. This verse wasn't God giving man permission or authority to rule over women. This was God giving a statement of fact that man WOULD seek to rule over women. And they've done for thousands of years, even excusing their actions in the face of Christ telling them the Law only allowed divorce because "of the hardness of their hearts" and Paul telling them that they should "love their wives as Christ loved the church".

Now THAT is something Debi Pearl won't tell you!

As far as your family goes, its appear dysfunctional from the foundation as marriage often are when not built on the word of God and rather built by the words of some preacher, or out of rebellion because in their youth they wanted something that God didn't desire for them. It's very easy for people to fall into this sort of trap when they are young and "in love". Give your parent some credit for staying with one another all this time in spite of their problems. They might yell and insult one another, but they have the idea of committment down pat!

Instruct your brother's girl in the scriptural ways of finding a man. (equally yoked means more than religion by the way)

And some problems you'll find you just don't have the answer for, because the root of the problem lies in their not understanding what it means to follow Christ. And those roots you just have to leave to the Lord to pull out while you model the correct way in front of them. Your actions are most times going to be the best witness for Christ! A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[MamaCW]

let me give my two cents on this. This verse wasn't God giving man permission or authority to rule over women. This was God giving a statement of fact that man WOULD seek to rule over women.


. Give your parent some credit for staying with one another all this time in spite of their problems. They might yell and insult one another, but they have the idea of committment down pat!

Instruct your brother's girl in the scriptural ways of finding a man. (equally yoked means more than religion by the way)

Your actions are most times going to be the best witness for Christ! A

I respectfully disagree with the first point iquoted menagerie..

~Genesis 3:16 does not say that your husband shall SEEK to rule over you..it says he SHALL rule over you.. if you tell your child.. you SHALL obey your father...you arent saying.."seek or try" to obey your father.. its an affirmative statement...

plus...

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

and the definition to submit is

sub·mit (sb-mt)
v. sub·mit·ted, sub·mit·ting, sub·mits
v.tr.
1. To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.
2. To subject to a condition or process.
3. To commit (something) to the consideration or judgment of another.
v.intr.
1. To give in to the authority, power, or desires of another. See Synonyms at yield.
2. To allow oneself to be subjected to something.


It seems pretty clear to me that we are subject to the rule of our husbands.. i think thats why women who are dating need to open their eyes and take off their blinders to the person they are going to marry..so this doesnt have to be their own "exception to the rule"... just as we are to submit to our husbands' authority.. they need to love their wives just as Christ loves the church...a man who loves his wife as Christ loved the church is be a good leader, making decisions for the glory of God and in his wife's best interest..a woman shouldn't have to resist to leading her husband lead because she should feel secure.. kind of like trusting him to put her life in his hands...

As for giving my parents credit for staying together...I do for the most part...but i still think their staying together has taken its toll..i've been blessed with an AMAZING man who loves the Lord.. and he isn't like my dad except for the easy going attitude...usually you hear that girls end up with men like their fathers, and become women like their mothers..I love my parents dearly..but I would not want to be like my mother for the most part, and i'm thankful that my husband is not like my father.. because then history would repeat itself.. my sister who is 20 has a child with some guy who is in jail..and she isnt with him, but i guess he was abusive with her when they were together..she hates my mom but thats because she adores my dad and wanted to be like him.. and she treats my mother the way my dad always did..its a very heartbreaking thing for me because my mom wants to have a relationships with her..but her prideful ways cause her to talk bad about her to everyone since she wont talk to my mom..

I did just that thing with my BIL's girlfriend..told her a man that Loves the Lord and respects his word, will be respectful to her and love her..

And you are right about actions being witness for Christ..My husband and i try our hardest to always be in God's will.. with our lives and with eachother..again.. maybe the idea of submitting to my husbands authority is a lot easier for me to obey than other women because (not to brag lol).. i have an amazing man..now he's not perfect..but he keeps my best interest and is also looking to do things God's way..and I trust his final decision in everything. We have my youngest sister who is 14 with us on sundays because we take her to church .. and she's stated on her facebook that she would love to trade places with our little boy because of the life and parents he has. That made me feel so happy to know that our relationship is an example to her..and I hope she doesn't fall in that "marry your father and be your mother" trap..

 

[annsni]

I don't have the time or the brain power to fully answer but Debi and Michael Pearl are very dangerous teachers and I would not only not recommend their materials but I also would highly caution against using them. I took one summer a few years ago to study their materials first hand and I think that was the angriest summer of my life. Their teaching is just so wrong.

Created to be His Helpmeet can be summed up in one phrase - "It's all the wife's fault". That is such wrong teaching and so against what the Scriptures say. During that summer, I was going to put together all of my information but found a blog that pretty much wrote exactly what I would have written and I decided not to recreate the wheel. You can see the blog at http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/

 

[MamaCW]

I don't have the time or the brain power to fully answer but Debi and Michael Pearl are very dangerous teachers and I would not only not recommend their materials but I also would highly caution against using them. I took one summer a few years ago to study their materials first hand and I think that was the angriest summer of my life. Their teaching is just so wrong.

Created to be His Helpmeet can be summed up in one phrase - "It's all the wife's fault". That is such wrong teaching and so against what the Scriptures say. During that summer, I was going to put together all of my information but found a blog that pretty much wrote exactly what I would have written and I decided not to recreate the wheel. You can see the blog at http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the blog link! I'mfollowing them now

I agree with you that the "its he wifes fault" mentality is wrongand unbiblical...

the blog description makes a good point

"We believe Debi Pearl's book Created to Be His Helpmeet, like any book, should be tested by Scripture. My wife and I spent many hours over many days thinking about this book and researching our Bibles. We came to the following conclusions, but we are eager to hear your thoughts."

And i definitely agree...even the bible tells us to prove all things by his Word..i'm sorry that reading this book made you so angry...

i'm still reading it and i've read many many things that i thought were pretty ridiculous ...but i still think its a great book! not because i agree with her point of view.. but because it challenges me to think outside of the box with my view, with the views of other, and especially with God's view..

but then again, the inner marriage counseling student in me likes to observe people and their viewpoints on areas of love and relationship..its a great topic for discussion..as long as people aren't getting all crazy and angry over her viewpoint...because ultimately..we don't need to live our lives the way Debi Pearl says we should.. but by God's Word

 

[Scarlett O.]

ah! one more point..

Eve was created to be a suitable HELPER for Adam..but remember.. that because she caused him to sin..her consequence was basically to be under his authority

Genesis 3 16 ---Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

MK has given you some good insights there. God did not tell Adam to "rule over her - she's a BAD woman - she messed up the good thing we had going on". The conversation about how her husband was going to treat her was between God and Eve - not God and Adam.

And I'm sorry, MamaCW (I really don't like being argumentative with sisters in Christ - I really don't- it makes me feel bad)

.....but Eve was not created to be a suitable "helper" for Adam. She was created to be his "help". See post #8 as to the Biblical definition for that word.

Also, blaming Eve for Adam's sin is what Adam tried to do. It didn't go over very well with God. God wanted to hear Adam confess his own culpability for his own actions and he didn't. Adam wasn't punished for listening to Eve.

Adam was listening to her, but then punished for eating of the tree that God told him not to eat from.

He was never given a directive "DON'T listen to that woman". But he was told, "DON'T eat of that specific tree." If listening to a woman and heeding her words was a sin, the Abagail was the biggest sinner that there was and David was the biggest fool that there was. The longest passage of a speech from a woman in the Bible is Abagail talking David out of his plans to kill every man on her property because of her wicked husband. David THANKED GOD for her and her words. And then he married her.

Was she wrong in giving him the fruit? YES! But was he equally as wrong in taking it and eating it? YES!

Saying that Eve "caused" Adam to sin makes her and all women after her 100% responsible for the spiritual outcome of men. Wives, mothers, girlfriends, and more. It takes the responsibility of his own spiritual walk away from the man.

And this is what Debi Pearl does in SPADES.

Page 11 - “Adam, the first man, Samson, the strongest man, Solomon, the wisest man, and even David, the man listed as being after God’s own heart, were all brought down by the women they loved.” - Debi Pearl

MamaCW, when I read the Bible, I just don't see that.

I see four men who did not sin because they loved a particular woman too much and allow her "Jezebel spirituality" as she calls it to RUIN a man. (She actually says that women are "directly or indirectly the cause of every religious cult there is". She says that we have no spirituality of our own - cannot understand doctrine on our own - cannot properly distill the true theology of the Word ON OUR OWN. We must have a man who is our "head" to do so for us.)

I see four men who sinned of their own accord. I'll challenge anyone to prove to me that David loved Bathsheba, that Solomon loved those 1,000 women, and that Samson loved Delilah and that these men sinned out of sacrificing themselves out of love for a woman who was 100% in the wrong and purposefully leading them TO sin.

 

[MamaCW]

MK has given you some good insights there. God did not tell Adam to "rule over her - she's a BAD woman - she messed up the good thing we had going on". The conversation about how her husband was going to treat her was between God and Eve - not God and Adam.

And I'm sorry, MamaCW (I really don't like being argumentative with sisters in Christ - I really don't- it makes me feel bad)

.....but Eve was not created to be a suitable "helper" for Adam. She was created to be his "help". See post #8 as to the Biblical definition for that word.

Also, blaming Eve for Adam's sin is what Adam tried to do. It didn't go over very well with God. God wanted to hear Adam confess his own culpability for his own actions and he didn't. Adam wasn't punished for listening to Eve.

Adam was listening to her, but then punished for eating of the tree that God told him not to eat from.

He was never given a directive "DON'T listen to that woman". But he was told, "DON'T eat of that specific tree." If listening to a woman and heeding her words was a sin, the Abagail was the biggest sinner that there was and David was the biggest fool that there was. The longest passage of a speech from a woman in the Bible is Abagail talking David out of his plans to kill every man on her property because of her wicked husband. David THANKED GOD for her and her words. And then he married her.

Was she wrong in giving him the fruit? YES! But was he equally as wrong in taking it and eating it? YES!

Saying that Eve "caused" Adam to sin makes her and all women after her 100% responsible for the spiritual outcome of men. Wives, mothers, girlfriends, and more. It takes the responsibility of his own spiritual walk away from the man.

And this is what Debi Pearl does in SPADES.



MamaCW, when I read the Bible, I just don't see that.

I see four men who did not sin because they loved a particular woman too much and allow her "Jezebel spirituality" as she calls it to RUIN a man. (She actually says that women are "directly or indirectly the cause of every religious cult there is". She says that we have no spirituality of our own - cannot understand doctrine on our own - cannot properly distill the true theology of the Word ON OUR OWN. We must have a man who is our "head" to do so for us.)

I see four men who sinned of their own accord. I'll challenge anyone to prove to me that David loved Bathsheba, that Solomon loved those 1,000 women, and that Samson loved Delilah and that these men sinned out of sacrificing themselves out of love for a woman who was 100% in the wrong and purposefully leading them TO sin.

I've never read SPADES and you are right about not agreeing with women being at fault for these men's failures.. what i wrote may have been misinterpreted.. i was just stating that because Eve had her part in the sin (by giving Adam the apple) she has her own consequences..but i too also agree that Adam was responsible for his own actions ..

I'm not disagreeing with you on those points..a woman isn't to be her husband's servant or slave..and by helper i'm saying it the same thing as help..his right hand wo-man.. lol..

I also don't believe that God made man head because woman cant think or do things for themselves...I know many woman who are doing great things on their own...i've been on my own just fine without my husband before we were together.. and if i ever had to be alone without him, i know i'll do just fine then..

But as his wife, I know that as head he has the final word..now he always comes to ME to help him make decisions..and i'm so thankful for that because know a few too many "machistas" (one of which i dated in the past)..who think women cant think for themselves and their opinion doesnt matter..that is totally off..and i don't deal too well with men like that..we don't always agree on things, but i will trust HIM and his role as decision maker..

and don't worry about "arguing".. i hardly consider this an argument..i'm actually enjoying the discussion..and hearing the viewpoints of other Christian women.. the "friends" i had before getting married.. are either not married and partying ..living secular lives ...or married and still doing the same thing.. dont have many christian friends where i live..and my church about 65 miles away from where we live (along with all the church family lol)...

I borrowed this (and a few other) books from one of my friends at church and she warned me that this book was very extreme or "out there" as she calls it.. but we have good conversations when we are together (being we are both very outspoken lol).. and she, knowing how i am, thought i'd enjoy reading it..lol

 

[MamaCW]

oh and i dont see submission as being punishment by the way lol.. i think its a beautiful thing under the right circumstances ...i just think God knew there needed to be order..because 2 strong people with their own unique opinions about how things are and should be.. is usually a recipe for disaster..hence the divorce rate..

 

[menageriekeeper]

Gotta chime back in. Eve didn't sin by giving Adam the fruit. Eve's sin was the SAME as Adam's sin: ie they ate the fruit that God told them not too.

The difference between the consequences wasn't because their sin was different but because God in His wisdom knew which consequence would bring each person to repentence.

 

[DiamondLady]

I have been away from the board for a bit and have not kept up with this topic. I want to say to Scarlett, YES I absolutely read each and every word of the book, not only that I taught quite a bit of it to my ladies SS class. Because someone reads and enjoys a book does not necessarily mean that they AGREE with every word 100% but it means they've found several truths and areas which spoke to their own lives.

I hear a lot of anger and pent up frustration in your words, as if you're forcing someone to see your point of view and in your anger you're not hearing what other people are saying. I'm not, nor never have, said I agree with every word in the book. I don't, as a matter of fact. What I am saying is that there are MANY women in this world who sit back and don't give the respect and authority that is due their husbands. They're too into women's lib and equal rights not understanding that they were given equal rights in the garden of Eden.
As for Eve's sin....Eve's only sin wasn't in eating the fruit. Eve's biggest sin was in listening to Satan. A sin that still is one of the biggest we struggle against today.

Adam knew better, Adam's sin was in eating. I asked a preacher one day why Adam didn't stop Eve, he knew better God had told HIM not to eat of the tree. Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam was WITH Eve in the garden when she was accosted by the serpent. Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
So why didn't Adam stop her? He knew better. So another sin for Adam...he couldn't or didn't control his wife.

BTW..a perfectly good definition for Ezer IS right hand...a strong right hand. A helper. Don't you think I've done a word study on the word Ezer. I really didn't need that whole self-important, look at how smart I am, display. I get you don't like the book, but I hope you will respect that others DO and allow us to receive what the Lord gives us from the book rather than beating us over the head with how much you disagree and how much you hate the Pearls.

 

[dcorbett]

I haven't read this book, but I have heard from two different Pastor's wifes that it is very helpful and thoughtful.

I see two distinct views on this author here. One accepts the Lord's word on "He shall rule over thee" and the other wants to add "seek to" into that verse.

It is difficult in this modern day to perceive the biblical concept of men being the head of the relationship. Ephesians 5 spells it out, though. I am the first to say that I am a strong woman, I was abused in the first marriage (not a Christian man) and after that, I was a single Mom for years and had to take care of everything. When I stepped back into the wife role, I had to pray over this scripture and let God do a work in my life.

I strive to be his help meet. (Genesis 2) I am not perfect, by any means, but I do make an honest attempt to swallow my HUGE pride and stop my ego from trying to usurp the Holy Spirit's guidance in my life - and let my husband be the head of the relationship, which is totally Biblical.

Debbie Mc