20/20 response

I am not the one with the problem....you engaged me in the first place, not the other way around....I have no desire to continue this, so please do not respond in a negative way to my hearfelt desire to see an honest discussion on this...which I think would help the cause of Christ....if so I will point out the negative unloving attitude. I actually thought your discussion with Cassidy was good....that seemed to be and honest discussion that could help. Moving on now....

 

Someone brought up "just don't go" when talking about churches that weren't solid and had issues.

Sounds good in theory, but not so easy IRL. My first experience was as a child. I had no choice. After a while of atheism I started on a search for truth. I didn't know where to turn so I went with what I knew. I figured the legalistic rules and such were great. They made me feel like I was doing the right thing. I didn't know anything about theology, didn't know about what was okay and wasn't, didn't know that a pastor is not all powerful and that you could say no or disagree. The only times I tried to voice an objection or an opinion I was shot down pretty fast. Women were to be submissive to men and I thought it was Christian to act like I was told to act by the men of the church, to believe all they said without question because they'd studied and I'd not and they were men, etc..

When you're either ignorant or new to the faith, you are usually pretty dependent on others to learn and vulnerable to false teachings. How do you know it's false if you don't know what's true yet? And trust...we're supposed to be able to trust pastors and elders and such. They're always upheld in history and books and movies as honorable people leading the flock closer to God. What new believer or seeker wants to go against what they've been told is how to live and act right? Especially women who were raised to be submissive to men and people taught not to question authority or think for themselves.

 

What's the purpose of closing it? I've found the responses on here quite interesting and varied. Disagreements happen, but it's a great topic and there's a lot of good points and food for thought being made all around.

 

Agreed Gina:thumbsup:

 

TC, your policies on sexual abuse are great. They are in line with what my own church does with the exception of the windows to the outside being open. Windows to the inside hallways are left uncovered, but the outside ones are curtained. Two reasons: a) we don't want perverts on the street to be looking in for targets and b) we have an awful lot of theft problems, don't want to give the thieves any info either!

Now, what policies does your church have to report abuse you are aware of that occurs off church grounds (or in my case on church grounds by the parents)? What do you do when you hear a child being verbally abused at church by a parent? Change of topic, what policies does your church hold you to that prevents you from becoming a "little dictator"? (not that you would, but the next guy might try it)

C4K, you have to remember what I said: my parents abused me (including shouting at me for disagreeing) and the churches we attended ignored the problem even when I screwed up enough courage to tell what was happening. I've also had a preacher, during a fire and brimstone type sermon, say outright that God placed him in authority of the congregation and if you didn't like his opinions you should find another place to worship. (that's not to say I haven't heard similar in non IFB churches because I have) Kinda hard for a kid to do, much less one who has been beaten into submission in the first place. Other pastors weren't so forthright but the implication was there and I NEVER heard anyone in those churches say they disagreed with something the preacher said. As a child I went from one "prison" to the next and wasn't allowed to disagree with anyone. I was very strictly taught that "my elders" were right and I was wrong period.

Personal responsibility is taught at MY church now, but it wasn't when I was a child and had no choice of where to go. I had to teach myself what to look for in a church. You get in a new Christian (PTL that they evangelized), but a new Christian comes into a church that fails to teach personal responsibility as it applies to choosing a church and they are going to follow the leader. They don't know any better. A child that has been raised to believe the pastor is next to God and his/her parents are next to the pastor also isnt' going to know any better.

And really, its a numbers game in a lot of churches. How many do you expect tell the congregants what to look for in a church and risk those people looking elsewhere? Is that really realistic? How many preachers do you know that tell their congregants to contact them if they don't understand or don't agree with what they said. The first time I heard it was in the SBC church I attend now. (which means that the IFB churches, the Freewill church and the other SBC churches did NOT encourage such discussions)

 

Far too much ugliness on both sides of this debate