20/20 response

Uh, no, I don't think our church is perfect nor do I extrapolate our church's experience to all IFBs. It is you extrapolates your negative experiences to IFBs in general.

I already did but will do so again.

1. Equal Elder Rule. No single man dictates to the entire group what or how things are to be done.

2. Background checks on all prospective new members. (You would be surprised at what we find, but I will deal with that in my response to Earth, Wind & Fire's post.)

3. No adult is EVER allowed to be alone with a child.

4. Two Sunday School teachers in every children's classroom.

5. Sunday school rooms with glass windows and no curtains so anyone walking down the sidewalk can see exactly what is going on inside.

6. Nobody ever makes cold or follow-up calls alone. Again, the two person rule is enforced.

7. No contact with children outside of normal service times without permission and a written statement of contact must be turned in to the church office. And, again, the two person rule is enforced.

8. Every child is taught, in the presence of their parents, about child abuse and what to do. We reinforce that nobody should ever touch or talk about their private parts, and that they can say "NO" to any adult if they feel uncomfortable in any situation. We also teach them to "tell an adult" if they are ever made to feel uncomfortable about any adult.

9. Teach them self defense methods. My 3 grandsons would probably hurt anyone who tried to molest them. They have studied the martial arts since they were 3.

10. Never dismiss anything a child says out of hand. It is better to investigate a misunderstanding than to ignore real abuse.

See above.

We don't ignore it.

I am sorry for your abuse but we are not all guilty even though we may be independent of any denomination, fundamental in our beliefs and baptistic in our practices.

Yes. Not for reporting her abuse, but for lying about me, my church, and our practices.

She is still a sister, but a lying one. Go back and read what she said. She said I turned a blind eye to abuse. I corrected her and explained what we have been doing for the past 25 years. She then said the same thing again even though she knew it was a lie. That makes her a liar.

Uh, well, I hate to be the one to tell you but the name of our church is "First Baptist Church." There is nothing else in our title. "Independent" and "fundamental" are simply descriptive of our association and faith.

You need to understand that I have never stood back and said "we aren't responsible for what that church does." What I have done is ask, several times, what we could be expected to do about a church 3000 miles away that we never even heard of? What do you expect us to do about a man 3000 miles away whom we have never heard of?

I have done so, 3 times, as a member of the Patriot Guards. How many times have YOU surrounded the Westboro bunch?

I don't ignore the problem so I still don't see why you keep making that accusation.

I am talking about our local church and other local churches of like faith and practice.

I have not attended each and every IFB church out there. But after 37 years in the ministry as an evangelist, pastor, and educator I have first hand experience with a couple thousand IFB churches, none of what are as you describe them.

I speak only of those I am familiar with. Can you say the same?

See what I wrote above.

Why do you only focus on IFB churches. By focusing only on IFB churches are you condoning abuse in the others?

I do and that is what I am talking about.

I don't call those who report abuse liars. But I do call liars liars. Gina lied, therefore she is a liar.

See the above list.

Why would you make such an unwarranted assumption? I never said any such thing. In fact, I said, and you even quoted, "It can, and does, happen everywhere." Are you being entirely honest in this discussion?

Again you assume facts not in evidence. I am aware of the problem and been "doing something about it" for over 35 years. If this abuse occurred (and I don't doubt it did) why didn't you tell me so I could do something about it? Were you trying to cover it up?

See how easy it is to blame others with a broad brush?

 

Yes. It is frightening what you find out. One couple presented themselves for membership but said they had to talk to me first. They had been attending for about 6 months and it appeared to me they liked the church and wanted to join. I had already run a background check on them. In a private meeting the man confessed he was a registered sex offender. (I already knew that from the background check.) We discussed what he had done, where (it was out of state), the circumstances, and how he plead in court.

I was convinced he was generally repentant (he had been in the navy, was drunk, and picked up a woman who turned out to be a minor). I told him of the restrictions that would be on him, including no contact with minors at all. He agreed. He and his wife became very valuable members. He died of cancer last year. It was a great loss to all of us. He was a testimony to the grace of God when repentance is real, not just crocodile tears.

Another time a single man presented himself for membership. I ran a background check on him and discovered there was a felony warrant open on him for murder! I called the sheriff and they took him away in handcuffs. It seems he was "single" because he had killed his wife some months earlier.

I wonder how many people are sitting in the pews on sunday with similar backgrounds that were never check? Scary thought!

 

Then you need to find another church.

 

Yes, but if we did that we wouldn't have anything to whine and snivel about on the FFF!

 

Each case is handled on an individual basis. In the case of the murder suspect, after he was removed by the Sheriff we announced from the pulpit why he as removed. In the case of the registered sex offender, the leadership was informed but no one else. We left it up to him. He eventually talked to most of the people in the church and told them of his dark past. He was a good man who did a stupid thing, but gave ample testimony to the grace of God in his life. Nobody in the church objected to their continued membership. Ain't God good?

 

The requirement for any staff position is much more stringent. Not just background checks, but finger printed, educational claims verified, former churches contacted, and, one of the most important, an unbroken time line. Any gaps are suspect.

 

Any member can bring to any Elder any allegation of improper conduct. It is required that the Elder then bring that allegation to the collective body of Elders who are tasked with taking the appropriate action. If the allegation involves criminal activity the Elders are required to call, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities.

If the allegation does not involve criminal activity the Elders will, collectively, interview all persons involved and will make a recommendation regarding the issue. That recommendation will then be brought to the congregation at large who will, collectively, approve or disapprove the recommendation.

If the allegation is against a member who is not in a position of leadership, and there is no unlawful conduct alleged, any action will cease upon the withdrawing of that persons membership. However, that person will not be given a letter of recommendation to any other church nor will the Elders give a verbal recommendation to any other church for that withdrawn member.

Its not perfect, but it works.