is it A MUST That Your pastor/Church Teach/Preach Calvinism?

AIC,
I hate to rain on your parade, but using jn16:13 out of context does not help your case...how you are taking it out of context, lets see:who was Jesus speaking to?

AIC,,,,, clearly this is a unique promise to the Apostles only. just read it, all of the you, unto you, show you,guide you.
Look at verse 4

AIC.....no one alive today;
1]was there to listen to Jesus-4But these things have I told you
2]so no one of us can directly remember-ye may remember that I told you of them
3]they were with Him from the beginning

In Jn 14, 15, 16 The Apostles were given speacial instructions, and promises.

We feed off the complete truth they were given. No calvinist denies the Holy Spirit teaches us what truth we know, but no man is promised ALL Truth.

All who react to calvinists because of the truth they believe have a tendency to resist at all cost.

 

The Birth,death , and resurrection Of Jesus.....are the historic facts of the gospel

What is being ignored here is......according to the scriptures

What scriptures? What do the scriptures teach concerning these historical facts?
This takes study of all the scriptures. God has given pastors and teachers for this purpose. A careful study leads to the doctrines of grace.
A shallow study comes up short,and defective....that is one reason of how many a church cannot protect their people, from cults and charismatics.

Every church takes a doctrinal stand.....weak or strong.

Some take weak or heretical stands......woman preachers, liberal churches, sodomites in the pulpit,,continuing supposed gifts,etc

Others take stronger confessional stands....sometimes this issue can be that simple

When Spurgeon or calvinists say calvinism is the gospel...they are saying that the historical facts listed in 1 cor15.....when studied out according to all the scriptures.....show Jesus dying a Covenant death for those The Father has purposed for Him to redeem:

Then you have others who resist,and boast that they have resisted these truths for 40 years, or their pastor never preaches these truths.
Some say....they could never worship a God who does what calvinists teach?
That is to invite disaster,saying you could not worship God who does what He wills to do.

 

It was the Apostle Paul who wrote much of what we now hold regarding the doctrine of election. Failure to include that aspect of the Scriptures equals taking a side in exchange for preaching the Word due to a theological position. Same with suggesting that we merely "come" to Christ based on some human-derived decision, also an error that falls under preaching a theology instead of the Scriptures.

 

I would like to ask a question regarding what I bolded. Do you mean this in regards to taking membership, or that you wouldn't want a "non-cal" in your church house, period. I am thinking it is the former and not the latter. If it is the former, I understand your stance on this. It would make things "uneasy" if there are a bunch of people on opposing sides in a church. Harmony in the church is a core essential to "church health", if you ask me. FTR, by my typing "Calvinist", or "Calvinism", I mean it with no ill will on my part. Its just that most of what I have read, these are the most common words used in association with this belief system, and I know that DoG is used as well. But I truly mean nothing "ill" towards you when I use those terms.

FTR, I do have a "name"; blood bought child of the King!!! This is the name I cherish more than anything, praise His sweet name!!

Good advice for any DoG to follow. But most of all, we need to led by God. If He leads, and we follow after Him, then He will put us(both "C" and "A") where He wants us to work for Him!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Good post!! Though I am not a "C", I agree with what you posted here Brother! Anything we read, we need to know the source, where they got their sources from, etc. Never accept anything without proof first. Very good point there, Brother. I know you don't need my approval, but when I read a good post, I like to tell them about it!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Love

Sometimes when we love something more than God through Jesus Christ and His word you have to watch out it might blind you from the truth. This song has been stuck in my head listening to post on this thread.

lyrics to When A Man Loves A Woman / Percy Sledge

It Tears Me Up-Best Of (1992)
When a man loves a woman,
Can't keep his mind on nothin' else,
He'd change the world for the good thing he's found.
If she is bad, he can't see it,
She can do no wrong,
Turn his back on his best friend if he put her down.
When a man loves a woman,
He'll spend his very last dime
Tryin' to hold on to what he needs.
He'd give up all his comforts
And sleep out in the rain,
If she said that's the way
It ought to be.
Well, this man loves you, woman.
I gave you everything I have,
Tryin' to hold on to your heartless love.
Baby, please don't treat me bad.
When a man loves a woman,
Down deep in his soul,
She can bring him such misery.
If she is playin' him for a fool,
He's the last one to know.
Lovin' eyes can never see.
When a man loves a woman
he can do her no wrong,
he can never want
some other girl.
Yes,When a man loves a woman
I know exactly how he feels,
'Cause baby, baby, you're my world
When a man loves a woman....

 

It seems from Jesus' letter to the church at Ephesus that they loved their doctrine and their methods more than they did Him. Whatever side you may be on concerning this thread we would all do well to heed Jesus call to love Him as we did at first. At that time we didn't even know what systematic theology was. We were just glad someone shared the "good news" with us. We didn't even really know that folks debated about the mechanics of salvation. We were just glad that we had Jesus and were saved. We weren't concerned about what version of the Bible we used. We were just thankful to have one to read. We didn't know about church politics, the pros and cons of alter calls, whether to have church on Saturday or Sunday... We were just glad to be with God's people. We didn't know we had to choose an eschatology. We were just glad that one day we would be with Jesus.

 

In a perfect world everyone would be just like me.

:1_grouphug:

 

To take the conversation in a slightly different direction, but one pertinent to the topic, I've also seen a move here on the board and in actual churches to disavow a theological position BECAUSE of the debate/disagreement that theological positions engender.

That is just as false a position as is taking a substantive stance on one particular theology without reconciling it to Scripture. There is no way to escape theology as long as we are involved in biblical church work.

Some have suggested that we "just have Jesus and the Bible..." but that IS a theological position, albeit an uninformed and very simplistic view that probably fails to deal with any number of issues, but a position nonetheless.

Knowing one's (or one's church's) theological stance is actually critical to lay out a direction, establish a purpose, and accomplish the tasks that Christ set before His church. We all (or at least we all should!) agree that evangelism is a prime directive of Christ. We all (same) agree that discipleship of the evangelized ones is also a prime directive. But how we approach those tasks is largely dependent on how we see God, how we believe God works, the response of humankind, etc., all of which are part and parcel of a theological mindset.

In that light, I reject a non-theological stance, just as I reject a Pelagian (human-centered) stance and a hyper-Calvinistic (deterministic) stance as non-biblical and untenable.

 

Willis, we are both Christians & both have the right to claim "blood bought child of the King" though that would be difficult to type. Note that while I dont like the name "Calvinist" since I believe in Credo Baptism, its easier to type.

Any Christian church should be professing Christ so you are welcome, after all, its His church ..... My favorite Scripture is 1 John 5: 11 & 12....And this is the testimony" God has given us eternal life, and this life is in the Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Truly, we are both Brothers. I just don't like squaring off in the areas that have caused petty discention

 

I can only speak as a Calvinist.....We call that Sovereignty

 

Some of us would agree, and be thankful to the Lord for inconsistent Arminianism.

 

Hear Hear :thumbs:

 

My younger brother was taught by his Arminian Pastor ....something along the lines of God as a say in your salvation, The Devil has a say & you have a say. Now I might have misunderstood but are you giving the entire glory to God if then He shares in only part of Salvation & isnt totally responsible? So here I get confused.

Also, how can one loose his Salvation & pick it up again? If God is Sovereign, why would he do that & allow you as a human to manipulate your own salvation....seems weak to me & not a sovereign God. So I will let them explain their position.

 

Now I am hesitate to do this but I have been reading much on Calvin (Mostly because he is so excoriated in BB that the utter contempt against the man caused me to try to examine who the real Calvin was).

Now from everything Ive read, at every point in his theology, Calvin insisted that salvation is a gift of divine grace rather than an achievement of human effort. The whole aim of his theology, especially his soteriology, was to glorify God for his Sovereign Grace.

I would agree with J. Calvin here.

 

Yes & I suppose we can argue it till we are both blue in the face but I believe that if every true Calvinist was to be interviewed, they would claim that the other position is not exclusively God centered but is distorted in the direction of self.....at least I hold to that. So your point is very valid "God still in control, just that he has chosen to allow us free will to a degree to decide final destiny! This way of believing supplies exactly what todays evangelicalism demands....a gospel that preserves a determinative role for personal choice.