Choice 'A' or Choice 'A', Which will it be?

[Aaron]

Aaron...



Actually...sometimes calvinists are true to the scriptures, but other times they are in great error. The scriptures are 100% true and without error. Calvins Institutes are not scripture, so they are NOT inerrant as the scriptures are.

When I speak of Calvinism, I am speaking of a systematic theology, not Calvin's commentaries or his Institutes. The system did not originate with Calvin, though he is identified as one of God's instruments to redeem the truth from the error of Romanism. It is the theology of Wycliffe and Luther as well, not to mention Paul and Jesus.

Really?

I was in my natural state, lost an undone, and I chose life. I decided at a point in time to repent, and embrace Christ by faith alone. And millions of others would say the same thing.

I'm sure that's your notion, but the Scriptures testify that you could not have chosen life. Life was breathed into you, you heard the voice of your Beloved calling, and you rose and opened the door.

I made a choice.

You made the only choice consistent with a nature born of God.

You are a little off with that.

Its actually...

"A man who chooses Christ, will be eternally born of God."

I don't see that written anywhere.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm sure that's your notion, but the Scriptures testify that you could not have chosen life. Life was breathed into you, you heard the voice of your Beloved calling, and you rose and opened the door.

You made the only choice consistent with a nature born of God.

Aaron.....my complements to you brother. This is the whole argument in a nutshell & you just addressed it flawlessly! Amen to that answer.:thumbs::applause::thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

Thanks, but it's just the poetry of Solomon. :thumbs:

 

[psalms109:31]

Suicide

There is suicide to walk away from the word of life. Choices is always before us, chose life and live. We don't see it because we chose it eventually.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is suicide to walk away from the word of life. Choices is always before us, chose life and live. We don't see it because we chose it eventually.

And in an unregenerate sin sopped, back stabbing, lets go out & get drunk & fornicate life, thats what appears to be life.....not that Dudley Do Right, bible toting, religious nut stuff. Ahhh many a day that I thought of nothing else but the thought of sinning exceedingly (I was captivated by it).....it was the only reality worth living for. You'd have to be a chump to do anything else. Ohhh, how I loved that sin....I smile even now. And here was my given answer....get ready! LOL

The old me (& it sometimes still comes out)

We are all men & sinners are we not? I prefer sin for what it is, & I freely choose it. For, after all, what is sin? It is common sense, it is reality. In truth, it is the only reality in the world, and everything else is confusion, lies, hypocrisy, sentimentality, pietistic falsehood & delusion.

Now there is the typical mantra of a man dead in sins (and enjoying it!) LOL!

 

[psalms109:31]

Dead man

God through His word is regenerating us, without His word we are dead men. Jesus is the life giving Spirit, without Him leading us dead blind man we have no hope. Jesus will not lose us praise God to trust in Him to not to be blown by every wind of doctrine. To stand firm.

There is two truths that in my carnal mind will not compute, I have to let one reconcile the other out. The one that is most damaging to me. Our natural instinct to preserve our lives. In my heart I cannot. To know Christ will not lose one He has been given and to stand firm in that truth. They go hand in hand. I will not teach one without the other.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

God through His word is regenerating us, without His word we are dead men. Jesus is the life giving Spirit, without Him leading us dead blind man we have no hope. Jesus will not lose us praise God to trust in Him to not to be blown by every wind of doctrine. To stand firm.

There is two truths that in my carnal mind will not compute, I have to let one reconcile the other out. The one that is most damaging to me. Our natural instinct to preserve our lives. In my heart I cannot. To know Christ will not lose one He has been given and to stand firm in that truth. They go hand in hand. I will not teach one without the other.

If this is a sticking point you shouldnt. Have you ever read carefully Spurgeons commentaries on them? Also read your own commentary....do you realize how stubborn you are being... for example : I will not teach one without the other.... Seriously dude, you really think God Almighty cares what you WILL OR WONT DO. Thats laughable. :laugh:

 

[psalms109:31]

If this is a sticking point you shouldnt. Have you ever read carefully Spurgeons commentaries on them? Also read your own commentary....do you realize how stubborn you are being... for example : I will not teach one without the other.... Seriously dude, you really think God Almighty cares what you WILL OR WONT DO. Thats laughable. :laugh:

There is a difference in pride compared to faith in the word of your God, your Saviour, your Lord. One that leads to death the other to life eternal.

 

[psalms109:31]

1 Corinthians 9:
Paul’s Use of His Freedom
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is a difference in pride compared to faith in the word of your God, your Saviour, your Lord. One that leads to death the other to life eternal.

Splendid. I'm already assured I have my eternal life
But as I said before, I never thought of eternal life. Why should I have? I know that you could explain it but back then....Id have none of it. It was a dramatic thing brother that knocked me off my high horse (Examine the lives of Paul, Augustine, Moody, Whitefield) & I'm sure countless others. Yes your crying out for the Lord, yes you get a conscience, yes you can no longer do evil things cause you pained each time you do them) ....amazing stuff brother. :godisgood:

 

[psalms109:31]

Splended. Im already assured I have my eternal life
But as I said before, I never thought of eternal life. Why should I have. I know that you could explain it but back then....Id have none of it. It was a dramatic thing brother that knocked me off my high horse (Examine the lives of Paul, Augustine, Moody, Whitefield)& Im sure countless others. Yes your crying out for the Lord, yes you get a consience, yes you can no longer do evil things cause you pained each time you do them) ....amazing stuff brother. :godisgood:

I praise God in your trust in God through Jesus Christ. Without His word which changed me I would be dead right now. I praise God everyday, in what He has done. I know not everyone is going to come to Jesus the way I did. To come to Jesus when He knocked on my heart to be taught to trust in Him no matter what. What great teachers that God sent to me. It was God through them that introduced me to Jesus. The Father did all the work, I praise God for the feet who He used to bring the good news.

God is leading by His word, even if I step on some toes.

Hebrews 3:
12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[Psalm 95:7,8]

16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Aaron...

You said...

When I speak of Calvinism, I am speaking of a systematic theology, not Calvin's commentaries or his Institutes. The system did not originate with Calvin, though he is identified as one of God's instruments to redeem the truth from the error of Romanism. It is the theology of Wycliffe and Luther as well, not to mention Paul and Jesus.

Paul and Jesus were not Calivists, Aaron. That statement is an absurdity of epic proportions.

I mentioned that I chose "life" when I finally came to Christ and was born of the Spirit.

And you said...

I'm sure that's your notion,...

Its not my *notion*, Aaron. It is what happened. I chose Christ. I had other options. I could have said "no!", and rejected Him. I could have gone back the the Catholic cult, I could have chosen the "new age" gobbledegoop that lots of people where turning to. Lots of people come as close as I was at that moment, and they turned away.

but the Scriptures testify that you could not have chosen life.

Thats a lie. The scriptures are overflowing with the truth that every one born into this world can choose Christ or reject Him.

Life was breathed into you.

Yes...when I chose Christ

you heard the voice of your Beloved calling, and you rose and opened the door.

Yes! I believe you you might be finally getting it!

You made the only choice consistent with a nature born of God.

:tonofbricks:

I spoke too soon, You are still not getting it.

I didnt have just one choice. I had many choices, but I chose CHRIST.

I said...

"A man who chooses Christ, will be eternally born of God."

And you said...

I don't see that written anywhere.

I feel very very sorry for you.

The scriptures are FLOODED with that wonderful truth. You are so devoted to your "Calvinism", that you are allowing IT...Calvinism...to supercede the scriptures as your authority!

God have mercy. Please calvinists...come to your senses! Almighy God is NOT in the buisiness of creating ROBOTS who come to Him because he PROGRAMED them to come!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I dont get where you equate Calvinists or any believers of DoG as Robots? Now your confused & your confusing me......I am not a Robot

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anyway from our way of looking at the whole enchalata......you were 1st chosen by the Father (thats called election) & then you cried out for salvation. anyway thats how we see it & thats our belief system. Your free to disagree, that doesnt make you any less saved.

 

[jbh28]

No, you say an unregenerate man is utterly enslaved by his own nature and fallen will and CANNOT choose God unless God regenerates him, giving him a will that can choose God.

You say he is FREE to choose AND at the same time you say he is a SLAVE and cannot choose. This is a contradiction and cannot be true.

If he is free he can actually choose God, if he is enslaved he cannot. He must be one or the other, he cannot be both at the same time as you falsely believe.

Why can't you see the obvious contradiction in your view?

It's not a contradiction. It's only a "contradiction" when you alter my view with your wording.

You say he is FREE to choose AND at the same time you say he is a SLAVE and cannot choose. This is a contradiction and cannot be true.

I didn't say that. You changed the wording.

He is free to choose anything he wants.

at the same time you say he is a SLAVE and cannot choose

He is a slave to his sin(john 8:34) and his desires are enslaved to his sinful nature. Therefore, he will always choose what he wants and will always choose self over God.

 

[psalms109:31]

The Father called first through the messenger that was sent through the word of life with the words of life with full knowing that the Father wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and to be a messenger of such a Gospel. If they walk away from Jesus they walk away from life.

The message of life comes from the words of Jesus and about Jesus where our faith comes from. Trust in Him and He does guide us just as the scripture say's. All glory and praise goes to Him for without Him i am nothing.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

Before the word of God i was a lifeless corpse.

 

[Alive in Christ]

I dont get where you equate Calvinists or any believers of DoG as Robots? Now your confused & your confusing me......I am not a Robot

Its because of crazy statements like this one from Aaron...

but the Scriptures testify that you could not have chosen life.

Truth: Anyone can choose or reject Him.

Or...crazy statements like this from calvinists...

"Why, you couldnt even come to Christ, unless God caused it"

Truth: Thats nonsense. Gods declaration....

Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

...is an open invitation to everyone, everywhere to come to Christ, if they want eternal life. Not just the Robots that He causes to come.

Everyone is called, and welcomed. But they have a decision to make. Do they want what Christ is offering, or not?

AiC

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Its because of crazy statements like this one from Aaron...



Truth: Anyone can choose or reject Him.

Or...crazy statements like this from calvinists...

"Why, you couldnt even come to Christ, unless God caused it"

Truth: Thats nonsense. Gods declaration....



...is an open invitation to everyone, everywhere to come to Christ, if they want eternal life. Not just the Robots that He causes to come.

Everyone is called, and welcomed. But they have a decision to make. Do they want what Christ is offering, or not?

AiC

You just avoided the whole systematic theology thing....threw 2000 years of beliefs by some very educated men & women in the garbage & wiped your hands clean. I though beg to differ.

Here is how I see it... you aren't changing me & Im not changing you. So there you have it. This is the same BS that your SBC churches have been dealing with, I guess in dixie especially for a long time. And truly, I couldnt care less. So fight it out amongst yourselves......me & mine go to our Calvinistic churches up here or down there & you arent changing that.... thats called "Individual Soul Liberty". Hallmark of us Baptists you know. :thumbs:

 

[Winman]

It's not a contradiction. It's only a "contradiction" when you alter my view with your wording.

I didn't say that. You changed the wording.

He is free to choose anything he wants.

No he's not, because all he can WANT in your view is sin. He is not free whatsoever, he is a slave. He cannot make a choice because he has no ability to do so.

Can a blind man choose to see? NO. But a seeing person can choose to close his eyes and be blind.

He is a slave to his sin(john 8:34) and his desires are enslaved to his sinful nature. Therefore, he will always choose what he wants and will always choose self over God.

See, you confirm what I said, now you say he is a slave.

How can a person debate this when you hold a man is both free and a slave?

You are oblivious that this is an illogical contradiction.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No he's not, because all he can WANT in your view is sin. He is not free whatsoever, he is a slave. He cannot make a choice because he has no ability to do so.

Can a blind man choose to see? NO. But a seeing person can choose to close his eyes and be blind.


See, you confirm what I said, now you say he is a slave.

How can a person debate this when you hold a man is both free and a slave?

You are oblivious that this is an illogical contradiction.

Same stupid round robin argument, different day:BangHead: