I got into a conversation with someone in another forum who says he is a tongue talking, full fledged Pentecostal who is a member of a Baptist church. He says they KNOW he's Pentecostal, speaks in tongues, etc. and they don't care, and accepted him into membership anyway. I find that hard to believe, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyone else ever hear of this? Would they be allowed to become a MEMBER in your church? I'm not talking about just attending there, anyone is welcome at my church, but being voted in as a MEMBER, even though they state they won't change their beliefs?
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Pentecostal Baptist?
- Thread starter Baptist4life
- Start date
So long as they understood it would not be practiced openly in the church. And there would be no chance for them to be in leadership or teaching in any format. We need to be careful what issues we separate on but because of this persons beliefs there would be some clear boundaries.
Your experience appears to be rather limited. I think that there are many Baptist churches that accept Penetecostal believers as members as long as they don't try to change the Baptist church into a Penetecostal church. If they do, then that has to be dealt with. Baptist churches also accept Calvinist who may disagree with the majority of its members. I see no difference as long as they don't create a problem.
A few years ago, a Lifeway survey of SBC ministers showed that about half of them believed that God may still deal with some Christians through a private prayer languange (speaking in tongues).
A few years ago, a Lifeway survey of SBC ministers showed that about half of them believed that God may still deal with some Christians through a private prayer languange (speaking in tongues).
It depends on the church. To become a member of our church one has to agree with the constitution including its statement of faith. It takes a firm stand against the Charismatic movement and states that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. If you disagree with that statement you ought not to join the church.
I guess I wonder why a Pentecostal wants to be a member of a church that doesn't agree with his beliefs.
That is a good question. But there can be reasonable answers.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
That has happened to us a few times. They come along because of the teaching and because of the family atmosphere. Eventually, however, most have returned because they miss the experiential atmosphere.
I qualify as one of those "Bapticostalists" that are in membership in a local baptist Church, teaches /assists in children Church, and part of a cell group ministry. Also part of the patoral prayer /counseling team at Church.
Think that you have to understand that there are different "camps" within charismatic/pentacostal groups...
Some are "classic" in theology...
Arminian, Dispy, All gifts in operation today, empasis on tongues being THE evidence of being "baptised in holy Ghost" second act of grace after saved...
ONLY thing I have in common with THAT brand of it is believe in Dispy, gifts function today, but MUST be in order, per Biblical model, NEVEr add too/supplants/superceded Bible!
Others are "frindge" section.. Believe the ABOVE plus ADD all 5 offices open today, especially modern day Apostles/prophets, thay DO have modern day "revelations/words etc" adding to the Bible/in addition to, KJV prominent, name it claim it, divine health and wealth etc
basically heretical, even other group calls it "not from God"
My baptist church statement of belief does NOT mention spiritual gifts directly, but does state that whatever is done MUST be biblical in basis and nature....
I have NEVER "taught" anything that the pastor/elders did not see and approve, and mainly just saying that a lot of this is dependent on IF a baptist Church has an official stance on Gifts ceasing or not, and what "type" of Charismatic one is!
I am pre trib pre mill moderate calvinist believer baptism spiritual gift Christian...
Beleive also that God might have directed me and my family into that Church, as there are some in there now who are talking about 'seeing Demons" on top of Church building, others saying friends are having "visions' for our church...
just explain to them not of God, as these "things" are bring in fear to their lives, and that we MUST be grounded firmly in Word of God.... the pastor does not buy into these, just glad that someone who "knows the jargon" can be of help to him to "sort it out!"
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There are a number of reasons. There is also a misconception among Baptists about many Christians who have had the experience or believe in the penetecostal experience. Granted, there are some churches where almost everyone there is emotional. However, many (if not most) of the older penetecostral denominational churches are different.
For instance, if the news media shows a demonstration against something, they only show the emotional participants, particularily if they are critical of the demonstration. The same type of thing probably applies if a Baptist goes to an older penetecostal denomination church. Most visitors only go to a special meeting such as a revival, which is not typical of a Sunday morning service. In these type churches, the average person acts the same as Baptist do in their services. Only a few are demonstrative. Go back a few weeks later, and it is probably the same few that are demonstrative.
The fact is that many of us act the same in our Baptist church as the average person acts in the Pentecostal church.
People have various reasons for leaving a Pentecostal church and coming to a Baptist church.
1. In search of traditional music. About 20 years ago, even the old penetecostal churches shifted from traditional music to the harsh, contempory, drum beat sound. Many Baptist churches have made or are making the same shift today resulting in many older people leaving those Baptist churches.
2. Some leave Pentecostal churches and go to Baptist churches because of the type of church government.
3. Some leave because of emphasis on Bible study in Baptist churches.
4. Some leave because they believe too much emphasis is put on tongues, healing and emotions in Pentecostal churches. They haven't changed their beliefs, it is just a matter of emphasis.
5. Finally some leave Pentecostal churches and go to Baptist churches for family or social reasons.
Would say biggest reason for me was that could see how MUCH opf the modern day pentacostal movemnent IS heretical/false doctrines practiced/promoted...
A baptist Church, with heavy emphasis on Bible, and with solid Music/teaching/family ministries etc
Does allow one to stay grounded in Bible, solid teaching, while allowing the filtering to discern "fake charisma" from real deal...
Usually because of a woman.
Could be, but I personally know quite a few happily married couples who have made the switch. Do you personally know anyone that switched because of a woman?
Youtube video of Southern Baptist Pastor Ron Phillips.
At 3:45 he tells tells the interviewer:
Here is his church listed on the Southern Baptist Convention website:thumbs:
At 3:45 he tells tells the interviewer:
Here is his church listed on the Southern Baptist Convention website:thumbs:
Code:
My wife's preaching now, and the Baptists hate that
worse than me speaking in tongues.
But I'm still a Baptist.
Yeah we're still Baptist folks, and my son's preaching
out here at Truth Tabernacle on Memorial Drive.
Right here, Baptist preacher, Baptist church, speaking
in tongues. Shhh, don't tell anybody.There is not a doubt in my military mind that said church would be fellowshipped from our association
What do you mean by that?
I think he meant to type, "DISfellowshiped." that is, kicked out of the local association.
Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, many SBC churches in Texas went through splits and disfellowshipping from each other due to the tongues issue. I suspect this happened nationwide, but I don't have a good sense of that because I was a kid.
For years after that, we couldn't discuss spiritual gifts or make reference to the Holy Spirit without falling under heavy suspicion. When I was in the Royal Ambassador program (an SBC Boy Scout clone), one of my projects was to write a report on the three Persons of the Trinity and that's when I discovered that the Holy Spirit was eternal, was present in creation, and empowered believers for ministry. We avoided talking about the Spirit so much that I didn't know basic doctrine!
I wasn't until the mid-1980s that I discovered spiritual gifts in my reading of the New Testament and began to recognize that the gifts were still active today, based on the teaching of scripture.
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Scripture does not make any declaration of cessation or of current activity. Some would like to have this issue resolved by eisegetical means but there is no solid support.
Add to that what Charismatics claim about the gifts and how they either do or did operate and for what purpose is more self aggrandizing than anything else. Those gifts were about a sign to show God was in what was going on. Even with the tongues issue tongues folks will almost always overlook and ignore 1 Cor 14:22.
Most Baptist churches do not allow Charismatic practices but my current church actually has it in the by laws that it is not to happen. Been there for years.
Add to that what Charismatics claim about the gifts and how they either do or did operate and for what purpose is more self aggrandizing than anything else. Those gifts were about a sign to show God was in what was going on. Even with the tongues issue tongues folks will almost always overlook and ignore 1 Cor 14:22.
Most Baptist churches do not allow Charismatic practices but my current church actually has it in the by laws that it is not to happen. Been there for years.
I agree with this assessment.
The reason I believe they are active today is because we see the gifts operating in the churches. We see pastor/teachers, evangelists, mercy-showers, people who encourage others, persons who have the gifts of the word of knowledge and wisdom, people who are prophets who are gifted to speak boldly and incisively without being ugly or demeaning.
I have witnessed one incident in the middle of a spiritually explosive situation where a woman was praying in tongues and a friend of mine interpreted what she said (he, up to that time, had never really heard someone speak in tongues nor considered himself to have any sort of gift to interpret). Furthermore, his interpretation matched the facts of a situation we encountered about two minutes later (of which the woman didn't have any human way of knowing).
I, with another person, prayed for a person to be healed, and there were. (For that matter, I've prayed for people to be healed a they were not.)
The way all of these gifts were exercised did not bring glory to the person through whom the gift was expressed, but rather glory to God. Most present didn't even know that something out of the ordinary had happened.
Since scripture doesn't indicate to me that spiritual gifts have ended, and I have seen legitimate gifts properly expressed in the body of Christ, I believe they are still in effect.
And it's not just "emotional" people who experience these things. I knew a professor at Southwestern seminary who spoke in tongues from time to time in his private prayer life during intense sessions of prayer. He was about the most rational person I have ever met.
However, I don't think that there are any sign gifts that are normally expressed in the body of Christ on a day-to-day basis. And I think we've all seen counterfeit gifts paraded on television (especially so-called healing and tongues speaking) or in person. That's a very different thing.
that is why I believe one can allow the Gifts to operate/function today in even baptist cirrcles IF
They are ALWAYS subject to being filtered throught the Bible, It MUST still be primary in the teaching/preaching in Church...
ONLY infallible word from God, nothing said/did adds to or supercedes it...
MUST be done in biblical order, and we cannot buy into "fridge" heretical stuff like word of faith, divine health/wealth etc
AND cannot buy into/bring in, the ideas that Tongues MUST be done, sign of evidence of second act of grace, "baptism in Holy Ghost!"