My Position on the Fourth Commandment

Now look at this wonderful logic,

“making God a violator of His own Sabbath law from which all Sabbath applications are derived” … “God a violator of His own Sabbath … from which all Sabbath applications are derived” … – no comment –


Re:
Dr Walter,
“Again, the Biblical calander provided in Genesis through Deuternommy is based upon a Lunar year of 360 days and 30 day months not equally divisible by seven. If God intended or designed the set of seven days to be the basis for calendar calculations we would read of 28 day months and years divisible by seven”

Perfect! Just REMEMBER what you are saying here….

I say, perfect, if you do not mean the opposite of what you say…? “_IF_ God…”?

“God intended” and, “God designed the set of seven days to be the basis for” and of his creation – his WHOLE creation, “the Day the Seventh Day Sabbath”, included!

And because “God intended (and) designed”, “_the set-of-seven-days_” “to be the basis for” and of his WHOLE creation, “the Day the Seventh Day Sabbath” as well, God therefore and thereby, “intended” and “designed” _THE ‘WEEK’_ “-of-seven-days”, “to be the basis for” and of his WHOLE creation", “the Day the Seventh Day Sabbath” INCLUSIVE!

So we FIND in fact that we DON’T “read of 28 day months and years divisible by seven” but through inference, that, quote, “the Biblical calander provided in Genesis through Deuternommy is based upon a Lunar year of 360 days and 30 day months not equally divisible by seven”, and as a result, that the by name “The Day The Seventh Day the Sabbath of the LORD GOD”, and “the sabbath/s” OTHER than “The Day The Seventh Day the Sabbath of the LORD GOD” did NOT COINCIDE with “The Day The Seventh Day the Sabbath of the LORD GOD” but seldom by pure incidental coincidence.

Which what YOU say, confirms which I said, here, http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71977 …

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71977 …
“these ‘sabbaths’ “in the FIRST day” and “on the TENTH day” “of this Seventh Month”, ARE ONLY POSSIBLE IF they were ‘sabbaths / sabbath-days’ quote: “_BESIDE THE SABBATHS (—of “the day the Seventh Day Sabbath”—) of the LORD GOD”!
Therefore these ‘sabbaths’ were to be “UNTO YOU a sabbath” and, “YOUR sabbath”, verse 32, because, “THESE ARE THE FEASTS / ‘Feast-sabbaths’, of the LORD”,
“DISTINCT FROM / BESIDE, the Sabbaths OF THE LORD”.
And thus it was made crystal clear right from the start “in Leviticus 23” but was simply discarded by Dr Walter.
Leviticus 23:2-4…
“Concerning the feasts of the LORD which _YE_ shall proclaim holy convocations … (Now, before anything else,)
These are MY feasts : Six days shall work be done, but the day The Seventh Day is THE Sabbath of Sabbath’s-rest, an holy convocation. Ye, shall do _NO_ work therein. (It is for the LORD’s work!) It is the Sabbath Day wherever you may dwell (over all the earth. It is not for you to declare or to connect to seasons of the earth.)
(But) the following, are the feasts of the LORD , even holy convocations WHICH _YOU_, MUST DETERMINE / PROCLAIM IN RESPECT TO THEIR _SEASONS_ (of the year: ‘days, months, seasons, years’) ….
See how the “sabbaths”
“BESIDE the Sabbaths” ordinary: “Seventh-Day-Sabbaths of the LORD GOD”,
in BOTH
the “Feast of Booths” and the “Feast of Unleavened Bread”,
the THREE “sabbaths-of-feast”
of the “Feast of Booths”,
the “TENTH day”,
“the FIFTEENTH day”, and
“the eighth day” on the TWENTY SECOND day
of the Seventh Month,
and
the ONLY “sabbath-of-feast”
of the “Feast of Unleavened Bread”
from “on the FIFTEENTH day”
“until on the one and twentieth day of the First Month”,
are “appointed” DIFFERENTLY through the month,
that is, are “appointed” independent and irrespective and
“BESIDE, the Sabbath”, “the Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD GOD” …
… which makes it IMPOSSIBLE “the Sabbath days in Leviticus 23 demand they were observed on what would be regarded as the first day "of the week" in a 28 or 29 day month”
and PROVES …
… these ‘feast-sabbaths’ in any of these feasts could never in EVERY instance have coincided with the Seventh Day Sabbath …
… OR, had to be in any way connected to or determined by the recurrence of the ‘weekly’ Sabbath Day “ON THE SEVENTH DAY, GOD, RESTED”, by having “finished”, and “FINISHED”, by having “rested” through and in Jesus Christ, through and in Resurrection from the dead, “SABBATH’S”!”

 

Re:
Dr Walter,
“The truth is that we simply have a set of seven days, six days preceding the Sabbath and six days following the Sabbath and that set of seven days can fit any calander at any time regardless of the number of days in the month or days in the year.”

GE:

Also remember what you are stating, here! For what you are stating here, in fact is true and “truth” time and again CONTRADICTED elsewhere by YOURSELF and the Bible.

Which forces you into an awkward position, old chap…

Cheers for now…

 

I herewith formally wish to CORRECT MYSELF!

Please change this statement of mine,

"I have said scarcely anything about the meaning of the Scripture “Heb. 4:1-4”. Of “Heb. 4:1-4” as speaking of the Sabbath Day, I never said a word! "...

...to...

"I have said scarcely anything about the meaning of the Scripture “Heb. 4:1-4”, verse 4 excluded. Of “Heb. 4:1-4” verse four excluded, as speaking of the Sabbath Day, I never said a word! "

My apologies,
Thanks
GE

 

Dr Walter’s Hoax

I feel like a sheep the only thing I can carry is my woolly brain.
That’s why I could not uncover his scheming … the trick is too obvious to even suspect! An eye-blinder so slick you never noticed. A camel through the eye of a needle so by my kool (upon my soul). Now I understand why every morning my cabbage garden disappears little by little. That camel!
Dr Walter has re-invented the wheel; now he peddles his patent to the gullible half learned road-show hungry evangelists priced a tithe plus side-kick offering.

For that, all these sesquipedalian ‘debates’ measured by the yawns!
I really feel sheepish!

Therefore, is it worth further consideration?
What else can be said than what has been said?
We shall have to wait and see; I not now feel like digging dead cows from the trenches (beating the dead poor old horse alive all over again).
But I have my sacred duty; like we all do.

The milled nut is it is God’s Word we deal with; or rather, it is God’s Word that deals with us gropers in the darkness. May His Word be the lamp for our feet it is supposed to be.

I am posting this note on the twin-thread too.

 

GE:

Here Dr Walter himself says it all, the truth, thinking he is proving his skewed ideas concerning the relation between natural divisions in time of months and seasons, and the Biblical and creational reality of ‘the week’ of the first “set of seven days”.

It is Dr Walter in his own words, who concludes the co-existence in the reality of BIBLICAL time, of BOTH “the division of time … as it is the sun and moon's job to give”— which “division” or ‘divisions’, “of time”, “are not divisible by seven”; and “the set of "seven" days for creation (which) is not given for the purpose to provide calendar division of time”.

But notice the ever so careful confusion and deceit of the Doctor’s. He CONFUSES things so, no one can understand a thing; to appear on the scene the great master in orderliness and understanding. But his confusion is only aimed at DENYING that “the "week"” “division of time” of “the set of "seven" days for creation”, “is tradition not divine”.

And so is Dr Walter’s WHOLE SCHEME IN FRAUD exposed by himself!
Because, if “the division of time” of “the set of "seven" days for creation”, “is tradition not divine”, then the first seven days of the coming into being of the creation, and the coming into existence of the creation itself, are “not divine”, but, are “tradition”.

Then every time the Word of God in Genesis says, “God said, let there be … and it was the First Day…” etcetera, until God said, that He “The Seventh Day rested from all _HIS_ works”, the Word of God actually lies, and Dr Walter is telling us the truth, that “the division of time” of “the set of "seven" days for creation”, “is tradition not divine”.

Therefore, Dr Walter, Have you become an evolutionist now a days?

Or is it simply above your understanding that the TWO ‘divisions in time’ are possible and in fact are the only reality of and in creation’s time and existence ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES—
1) “the division of time … as it is the sun and moon's job to give” for all humanity believers and non-believers,

and

2) “the division of time” of “the set of "seven" days for creation” for believers only?

I don’t believe it is above your understanding; I am convinced it is AGAINST YOUR FAITH!

 

What does His Word tell us in this matter?
Israel is made Holy by religious rites. The Sabbath is one they must observe. God chose His people, and the Sabbath is a mark to them, and they only.

 

GE:

So what?

What about it that Jesus Christ rose from the dead "In the fullness of the Sabbath's Day in the mid-afternoon daylight inclining towards the First Day of the week"?

Does that mean any thing to YOU, or was it a historical fact for the Jews only?

 

GE:

Having declared, “This proves that the set of "seven" days in creation provides only a PRINCIPLE of six working days that is both concluded and preceded by a Sabbath”, Dr Walter openly again contradicts exactly “that the set of "seven" days”, “IN CREATION” – that is, in Genesis’ recording of the “creation” – “provides”, _the_ “six working days” that God created on, “that is” “only” “CONCLUDED”, and was NOT “preceded”, “by a Sabbath” also.

Which bare fact – from “In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth” until the Word of God was made flesh so true and trustworthy is He in principle –, “proves” ONCE-FOR-EVER AND -ALL, “that the set of "SEVEN" days in creation provides” the “only” “PRINCIPLE” defined by Dr Walter himself, “as a principle that can fit or be applied to the NATURAL CALANDER (sic.) divisions determined by the moon and sun or any TRADITION of calendar division based upon moon and sun calculations”.

Which “principle” — the “principle” namely, of “the set of “seven” days” or ‘WEEK’ quite simply — is the “principle” which Dr Walter will never admit the while it is the exact same “principle” that underlies both the Genesis history of the creation and the giving of the Fourth Commandment in Exodus 20!

Which with respect to Dr Walter is very odd and inexplicable ….

 

Please disregard post of 1.27/1.29

and replace with this post,

GE:

Having declared, “This proves that the set of "seven" days in creation provides only a PRINCIPLE of six working days that is both concluded and preceded by a Sabbath”, Dr Walter openly again contradicts exactly “that the set of "seven" days”, “IN CREATION” – that is, in Genesis’ recording of the “creation” – “provides”, _the_ “six working days” that God created on, “that is” “only” “CONCLUDED”, and was NOT “preceded”, “by a Sabbath” also.

Which bare fact – from “In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth” until the Word of God was made flesh so true and trustworthy is He in principle –, “proves” and “provides” ONCE-FOR-EVER AND -ALL the “ONLY” “principle” — defined by Dr Walter himself as “the set of "SEVEN" days in creation” — that “can fit or (can) be applied to the NATURAL CALANDER (sic.) divisions determined by the moon and sun or any TRADITION of calendar division based upon moon and sun calculations”.

Which “principle” — the “principle” namely, of “the set of “seven” days” or ‘WEEK’ “in creation” — quite simply is the “principle” which Dr Walter will never admit the while it is the exact same “principle” that underlies both the Genesis history of the creation and the giving of the Fourth Commandment in Exodus 20! Which with respect to Dr Walter is very odd and inexplicable ….

 

GE:



Re:
Dr Walter,
“This … the set of "seven" days in creation … proves that the set of "seven" days in creation provides only a PRINCIPLE of six working days that is both concluded and preceded by a Sabbath.”

This statement of Dr Walter’s is his conclusion to what he just before this statement had said, which was, “… the set of "seven" days in creation provides only a PRINCIPLE of six working days that is both concluded and preceded by a Sabbath.”

I have pointed out and stressed the limitation which Dr Walter himself put to “the set of "seven" days” he was speaking about, the limitation that it was “the set of "seven" days IN CREATION”!

Now since it was “the set of "seven" days IN CREATION” that was NOT “both concluded and preceded by a Sabbath”, but was ONLY “CONCLUDED by a Sabbath”— which ‘concluding’ “Sabbath … in creation”, was not just any and later, ‘sabbath’, but “The-Day-The-Seventh-Day” “in creation” and, “The-Day-The-Sabbath-Day” in the Fourth Commandment.

It therefore follows that Dr Walter’s conclusion, that “this … set of "seven" days in creation … proves … provides only a principle of six working days that is BOTH concluded AND PRECEDED (Emphasis GE) by a Sabbath”, is unfounded in both the “creation” or “the Creation Sabbath…”, “…and the Fourth commandment”— irrespective the fact that they “do not contain the words "of the week"”— they thoroughly contain the IDEA!

Thus Dr Walter’s concluding remark contains NOTHING more or better than his preceding remark; it’s all show, dressed over show, without which the common sense of the fact “the set of seven days is not given as a time divider for calendar purposes but as a principle that can fit or be applied to the NATURAL CALANDER divisions determined by the moon and sun or any TRADITION of calendar division based upon moon and sun calculations”, does perfectly well by itself!

The only gain reached in the above statements of Dr Walter’s, is that he provided us with still another description of his for the ‘week-concept’ derived from the origin and perpetuity of the creation-‘WEEK’ and creation-‘week-DAY’, the “Seventh Day-[OF-THE-CREATION-WEEK]-Sabbath of the LORD GOD”.

This time, instead of having spoken of “the set of seven days” for THIS VERY creation-WEEK and creation-week-DAY, Dr Walter wrote of “the set of seven days … as a PRINCIPLE” of and for the creation-WEEK and creation-week-DAY of the Seventh Day and Sabbath of the creation and Fourth Commandment, “The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”.
It may have helped us a little, “as a principle” to better conceptualize ‘the week’, but it really couldn’t have helped for Dr Walter’s disgruntled confusion and confusing or denial “OF-THE-WEEK” in the creation story of Genesis and the Fourth Commandment of Exodus 20.

 

So then I believe the Lord spoke to Moses. Exodus 31:13, "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you."

So what are you saying? The Sabbath day is a sign to me? I am of the Body of Christ, so I know I will not be going through the great tribulation.

I fully agree with you that Jesus arose from the dead on the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week. This agrees with all scripture. In this knowledge we then can determine without question the day He was laid in the Tomb. A Wednesday; Right?

 

GE:

“To principle”, “the "seventh" day in the set of seven days is equally the "first" day preceding six working days”, is quite correct, but, only when one is speaking of, precisely, “In regard to … what is identified as …”,
One: “… the "SEVENTH" day in the set of seven days …”, and “_WHEN_”,
Two: “… this principle of seven days is applied to any CALENDAR”!

“To principle”, therefore, “the "seventh" day in the set of seven days…” in “any CALENDAR”, will also be the “first day preceding six working days”; which will always be true “when this principle of seven days is applied to any calendar”, but cannot be true when this principle of seven days is applied to “… the set of "seven" days IN CREATION”.

“When this principle of seven days is applied to any calendar” and when this principle of seven days is applied to “… the set of "seven" days IN CREATION”, are two different scenarios altogether! But quick moves with Dr Walter do make some certain facts seem to disappear like magic. He steals the penny so to speak from his audience’s mind; but that penny is still stuck somewhere between the many folds in his handkerchief.

 

GE:

Dear Ituttut, if Jesus were crucified on a Wednesday, he would have needed four days to fulfil the "three days" of the Scriptures.

Make sure about two factors, and the rest will follow by itself.

One: Distinguish the _passover-truth_ "that which remained" of the passover sacrifice had to be assimilated with mortality and the dust of the earth NOT "on the day that they killed the passover", the 14th day of the First Month; but on the day AFTER: on the fifteenth day of the month!

Then, Two, Make sure of the God-given and therefore imperative eschatological wholeness and fullness [Lohmeyer] of THIS the "In-the-Bone-of-Day-Day" of the Passover of Yahweh, this day referred to as "THAT DAY TO BE SOLEMNLY OBSERVED" its whole night and its whole day, "that great day-of-sabbath-of-passover's-feast"! Which meant "THAT DAY" was employed in the service of Joseph to inter the body of Jesus FROM BEGINNING: "WHEN ALREADY EVENING IT HAD BEEN", UNTIL, "mid-afternoon as the Sabbath Day began to draw near", Mk15:42 until Luke 23:54 = John 19:31,38 until John 19:42.

 

Notice the awe-inspiring typology of the Lord's Supper on the night _BEFORE_ He would be crucified and killed. Jesus commanded his disciple that THEY, HAD TO EAT the bread as it were his body and THEY, HAD TO DRINK the wine as it were his blood _BEFORE_ his flesh-and-blood life was actually sacrificed, as a token of FAITH NEEDED to be co-buried in HIS death and be co-resurrected together with and IN HIM. Or else like the faithless they would have had to eat the passover-meal of the animal and themselves must have been assimilated with death and the dust of the earth JUST LIKE the animal-sacrifice they would have eaten: _AFTER_ Christ would have been crucified and died.

 

GE:

Says who?!

Says Dr Walter!

But every time God finished a day’s work “in creation”, it is concluded on God’s work of and on that day, “And it was (1) evening (and ensuing night) and it was (2) morning (and ensuing daylight).” For God darkness is light like light is light. God made both, and God’s Kingdom includes the night like it includes the day. God works ALL THE TIME OF DAY AND NIGHT.

No different on the Sixth Day.

And God needed nothing to aid Him in doing his work; also not in creating man. God did not NEED time; he USED time because He preferred time – our time – to have worked in. Which already is prophetic of Christ’s incarnation.

God created man with his hands, and formed him from the dust of the earth like the Potter the clay according to and with, his WILL. God’s hands are God’s omnipotence. He created Adam and Eve from Adam’s rib ‘IN NO TIME AT ALL’ than that He created them man and wife on the Sixth Day of the creation.
The sixth day … was actually Adam and Eve’s FIRST full day … and therefore the Seventh day Sabbath”, was actually their SECOND DAY!

The chronology of Genesis 1 through to chapter 3 contains not the slightest indication that there were more days than the actually mentioned days of the first-ever “set of seven days” of GOD’S WORKS in having created Adam and Eve, and THEIR, actually mentioned works of disobedience and fall into sin on the Sixth Day of that “set of seven days in creation”.

 

GE:

Re:
DW:
“The lunar cyle does not promote an evenly divided month of seven day weeks (28) but is nearer to 30 days. The earliest counting in the book of Genesis does not follow calendars divided evenly by seven days but 30 day months and 360 day years. See the account of Noah and the flood the counting method.”

GE:
Yea yea for the umpteenth time!
Listen who talks “hot air”!

Re:
DW,
“The Sabbath law simply sets forth a set of seven days that necessarily precede and follow a Sabbath ONCE IT IS BEGUN.”

GE:
Yea yea, “once it is begun” AS PER “the earliest counting in the book of Genesis” in the creation-account there, where and when NO “sabbath”, “preceded”, and where and when THE, Sabbath by the Name of “The Day The Seventh Day” –of the creation-week, FOLLOWED and ENDED the cycle of the week or “set of seven days” “ONCE” it had “BEGUN”! Surprise surprise….!

Re:
DW:
“It (the Sabbath) can fit any kind of human calendar and fall on ANY DAY OF the calendar whether if the day is defined by NUMBER or by NAME. Whether it fell on FRIDAY in the Egyptian Calendar or fell on Saturday in the Jewish Calendar.”

GE:
You need help Doctor; you need a doctor; a head-doctor.

The Sabbath of the Genesis and the Fourth Commandment – of the whole Bible for that matter – never “fell on FRIDAY”; it never “fell … in the Egyptian Calendar ”; it never, “fell on Saturday in the Jewish Calendar”.

Eish, the poor Doctor! As my mother in law used to advise me, The bottom line is, take an aspro and think positive!

THINK for a change, Gerard and all Saturdarians and their view, are RIGHT because THE ACCOUNTS of the giving of the Sabbath Day in the creation and in the different Commandments, RESTRICT the Sabbath Day and Sabbath-principle, to only ONE APPLICATION— The Seventh Day of the CREATION- and COMMANDMENT-week, in ANY kind of calendar where The Seventh Day of the week might be indicated as ‘SATURDAY’.

Because:
_God_, applies the Sabbath and the Sabbath-Law beyond any particular calendar, spot-on, onto the particular ‘day-of-the-week' : "The-Day-The-Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD GOD” … proving it an absolute PRINCIPLE of The Sabbath’s Rest-Day after and before EVERY “six working days” THAT MAY NEVER BE CONFUSED FOR the particular ‘day-of-the-week' : "The-Day-The-Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD GOD”.

Poor Doctor… my sympathy…

 

Dear friend, if I'm not mistaken you said He arose from the dead on the Sabbath. Three days in the ground, just as He said, and He tells us in the beginning how many hours are in a Day (day/night).He says 72 hours. What does man say?

Agree the 14th precedes the 15th, just as Saturday precedes Sunday. However Nisan 14 does not alw2ays fall on a Friday.

Their night was just ending (abort 6PM) Saturday, and their day, Sunday was just beginning to dawn. I understand that, so Jesus had to be put in the Tomb on a day in which they were allowed to attend to such things. So there is only one (1) day that allows for 72 hours to be accomplished. Thursday was a High Sabbath. The High Sabbath (Nisan 15) can fall on any day, including Saturday the regular Sabbath, or the seventh (7th) day of the week. But Nisan 14 that year could not have been on a Friday. The man inserted Friday internment rejects the Word of God.

I posted on this a number of years ago, yet the tradition of man continues to be believed. Some will not believe in a Friday. Some believe Thursday. But Thursday is also impossible if we believe Saturday (Sabbath day) to be the 7th day of the week, bring it to a close, Wednesday is the only available day in a seven (7) day week.

Your assumptions are wrong. The first Adam had a Body. The Lord God of Joseph had not a Fleshy Body born of a woman, in a sinful Body. Please explain from where you are getting your information. In the image of God we are made FLESH, and that FLESH will die. If Joseph's Dad did not know HIS name, what makes you think Joseph did. Surely centuries later someone would have informed Moses.