Bo BOTH Cals/Arms Affirm We MUST excercise Saving Faith To become Christians?

It [edit] (eternal life) is called a FREE GIFT.

If something is free you do nothing for it.

If something is a gift you do nothing for it.

Ever wonder why Paul calls it a FREE GIFT?

........and people still don't get it............

 

Check this out and you might get the answer.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71822

From the Website Calvanist believe:

"Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God."

Arminianist believe:
"The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation."

 

Yea ..... Duh? :laugh:

 

Well said KR

All believers exercise saving faith....after it is given to them. Faith is an instrumentality that lays hold of the promises.

Every believer ,,, believes
Every believer... repents
"" "' ...serves God
"" ''' ....does good works
"" """ .....follows peace and holiness,without which no man shall see the Lord

But it is God who is the author and finisher of our faith

Some think that man is the Author and Finisher...but scripture says it is God

 

I added quotes from the website on my post #3 for the two camps views.

 

no.....see rev macs chart
saving faith is a gift....no one has it unless God grants,or graces it..



it is not a fifty fifty proposition..

 

This is not really that difficult a topic. List out the component parts of "salvation" and see who does what...

Election before the foundation of the world -- God
Effectual Call -- God
Regeneration -- God
Justification -- God
Faith/Repentance -- God's gift to which man responds
Adoption as sons -- God
Sanctification (being conformed to the image of Christ -- set apart for His own purpose) -- God's grace and man's will/works
Perseverance -- God's grace
Glorification -- God

 

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your questions, JF. Keep asking them...you are clearly seeing the inconsistencies in your view, much as I did a few years back and asked these same kind of questions. The only true monergistic position does not need faith. If you need to cut down a tree and I give you a chainsaw...or you were born owning a chainsaw...who cuts down the tree?

This "gift of faith" is theological science fiction. Of course it is a gift that God only requires faith, but it is the object of faith that saves, not faith in itself. Even a gift has to be accepted. Grace is not opposed to effort, grace is opposed to earning.

Keep on asking!

 

Hmmm.. Interesting.. you have justification prior to faith. Justification is making one judicially right before God - ie. In our case, the removal of sin through payment for sin.

Yet scripture states we are "Justified" by faith, not prior to it, just as it does regarding our sanctification done by God (which is a one time event, not the sanctification we are to strive for and walk in which is illustrated in your 7th proposition).

The understanding of regeneration (not just what it does but 'how' and 'when' it does this).. gives a better understanding justification as well as a better grasp of faith, and when it comes into play in the process of salvation.

It is one of the reasons your proposition of order (regarding #2, 3, 4, and 5) are easily understood as incorrect.

 

Jesus fan...

You are 100% correct. God does not have automatron robots who embrace Christ because they are programmed to. God have mercy.

Absolutly. You are 100% correct again.

Every person is given the choice to embrace Christ or reject Him. The Holy Spirit convicts and draws...and the person has a choice to make.

Praise the Lord.

 

Whoa, in the other thread you said that you didn't believe "that man and man's efforts play a pivotal role in the salvific endeavor," yet now you say man must respond in the salvation process? When I attempted to correct you by showing that Calvinists affirm unconditional election, not unconditional salvation you railed on me saying, "I am confusing nothing. I am quite well versed in both Calvinism and Arminianism as theological systems. You, here, are working to erect a strawman that I never propose."

So, which is it, does man play a role in salvation or not?

 

How can a person have spiritual life until he is justified and his sins forgiven? Can a man be spiritually alive AND dead in sins at the same time? Absurd!

You must believe and be justified before you can be spiritually alive.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

did you mis-type this?

Welcome back webdog

 

Webdog

Correct. We are all spiritually dead, until we embrace Christ. Until then we are alive physically, but dead spiritually.

When we respond to the Holy Spirits drawing and convicting, and surrender ourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ we are at that moment regenerated, justified, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and sealed permanently into the body of Christ.

Praise the Lord! Glory to God! I remember that blessed moment years ago when I became brand new as if it were just yesterday.

What a day that was. What a great God we have and serve

 

I have no clue what you are getting here regarding my post. Are you addressing my post as though it disagrees with you? If so, please read it again.

While there is much I disagree with you on, in this we both seem to be saying the same thing

 

JF, you are starting to understand properly now. Faith must precede regeneration, because you cannot be free of your sins until you believe and are justified. You cannot be spiritually alive while you are still in your sins, it is your sin that causes death (the wages of sin is death).

You cannot be regenerated for even one millisecond before faith or you would be a born again sinner! This is impossible, yet many Reformed teach a person can be regenerated for years, even decades before trusting Christ. This would be a person who is spiritually alive AND spiritually dead in sins for years! You can easily see how nonsensical this view is.

Jesus said the DEAD can hear his voice, and they (the dead) that HEAR (believe) SHALL (afterward) live. (Jn 5:25).

It is the removal of your sins that makes you alive. Sin causes you to be separated from God ( spiritual death). The moment you are justified your sins are removed and you are no longer separated from God but reconciled. But you must first believe to be justified, all scripture says this.

Keep studying.