fallacies of "non-cals"

[quantumfaith]

OK, scream all you want, it only shows immaturity.



I believe God is a God of perfect justice. God will, in His own way, bring perfect justice to those who have never heard and very possibly in the process reprimand us for their now hearing.

God will work all things out in perfect justice. There is no justice in election.






You avoid my question. Which of your children would you willingly and purposefully sacrifice for your own glory. That is what you say God is doing with election.



As to numbers you are speculating. I don't. God loves us enough to allow us to make our own decision ... those of us who have heard.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:, most particularly you first line.

 

[asterisktom]

Luke...



Your issue isnt with me. Its with the Reformed website "Sola Scriptura". I went there and quoted from their website, in the area where they explain calvinistic "election".

Here is a link.

Go over their and straiten them boys out...


http://www.mbrem123.com/calvinism/elec1.php

Considering the uniformed comments on Reformed theology you have made so far on this thread I am now convinced you have no idea what we believe.

I don't think you even read through a Chick tract on the topic, let alone understood that particular Website you cited.

 

[quantumfaith]

Does it make you "feel" better to say that God doesn't love them and allows them to go to hell?



Listen, people go to hell not for a lack of love from God, but because they chose to reject it.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Alive in Christ]

AsteriskTom...

Considering the uniformed comments on Reformed theology you have made so far on this thread I am now convinced you have no idea what we believe.

:laugh: Well, thank you for your kind words, friend. :wavey:

I appreciate your interest in my post.


Regarding your comment, I believe that all of these reformed websites that I regularly visit in order to get information do indeed know what calvinists believe.

And since that is where I get my information, I do believe I have a decent enough understanding of calvinism to post regarding this topic.

Again, thank you for your input.

God bless.

AiC

 

[JesusFan]

AsteriskTom...



:laugh: Well, thank you for your kind words, friend. :wavey:

I appreciate your interest in my post.


Regarding your comment, I believe that all of these reformed websites that I regularly visit in order to get information do indeed know what calvinists believe.

And since that is where I get my information, I do believe I have a decent enough understanding of calvinism to post regarding this topic.

Again, thank you for your input.

God bless.

AiC

Just remember though that reformed view of calvinism is NOT necessarily same as many baptists hold to it being...

reformed more "high " camp cals, while many baptists would be from "Moderate" camp

traditionally would go like this...
Reformed regeneration faith both gifts of/from God
many baptist Quickening faith regeneration God works to allow you the means to actually be able to p[lace faith in jesus, its just that those he works on/with WILL become saved, that proves their election is sure!

 

[Luke2427]

Just remember though that reformed view of calvinism is NOT necessarily same as many baptists hold to it being...

reformed more "high " camp cals, while many baptists would be from "Moderate" camp

traditionally would go like this...
Reformed regeneration faith both gifts of/from God
many baptist Quickening faith regeneration God works to allow you the means to actually be able to p[lace faith in jesus, its just that those he works on/with WILL become saved, that proves their election is sure!

No. the traditional Calvinist view is that regeneration precedes faith.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They quote from Berkhof, Systematic Theology ,and The Canons of Dort. Nothing about people freely choosing Christ anywhere...

(bolding mine)

Regarding Total Depravity and Irresistible Grace:
When you say, "Can God make me become a Christian?" I tell you yes, for herein rests the power of the gospel. It does not ask your consent; but it gets it. It does not say, "Will you have it?" but it makes you willing in the day of God's power....The gospel wants not your consent, it gets it. It knocks the enmity out of your heart. You say, I do not want to be saved; Christ says you shall be. He makes our will turn round, and then you cry,"'Lord save, or I perish! CHS

 

[DHK]

Just remember though that reformed view of calvinism is NOT necessarily same as many baptists hold to it being...

I am not much for "reformed" anything--reformed, revised, changed, altered, poisoned, not anymore genuine, etc.

As for me, I will stick to the Word of God, and its unalterable truths--those truths which have not been changed or reformed.

 

[JesusFan]

I am not much for "reformed" anything--reformed, revised, changed, altered, poisoned, not anymore genuine, etc.

As for me, I will stick to the Word of God, and its unalterable truths--those truths which have not been changed or reformed.

Think that is same position both Arminians and Calvinists would hold to...

the point here is that there ARE differences among how Calvinist tend to see the scriptures regarding Election/Faith/regeneration etc....

sometimes think those who hold to Arminian view forgets that we all are not able to be "lumped" together

pretty clear differences between how reformed and some baptist Christians view these things!

 

[Alive in Christ]

JesusFan...

Just remember though that reformed view of calvinism is NOT necessarily same as many baptists hold to it being...

reformed more "high " camp cals, while many baptists would be from "Moderate" camp

traditionally would go like this...
Reformed regeneration faith both gifts of/from God
many baptist Quickening faith regeneration God works to allow you the means to actually be able to p[lace faith in jesus, its just that those he works on/with WILL become saved, that proves their election is sure!

Yes, I do understand that their are different "levels" or "understandings" of Calvinism. Thank you for bringing that up.

And let me also say... *Thank You*...for your civil attitude and reasonable understanding concerning these issues.

Some of these others could learn a thing or to from you, brother. :wavey:

AiC

 

[Iconoclast]

Interesting contradiction here. How can God not tolerate "that any parish" while at the same time condemning others to parish by election?

CTB...no contradiction......all men were considered as fallen,and perishing under the judgement of God before any were elected unto salvation.
God is long suffering not only in second Pet3, but also here in Romans;

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

John 3:16 does not say, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only so so that the elect might be saved."
So that everyone believing,savingly ,anywhere in the world, will continue to believe and be saved......Crabtownboy.....this everyone believing winds up to be ...you guessed it! The Elect....It does not have to say elect here, because everyone understands that only the elect will believe!

If you had the power, which of your children would you condemn so that your own glory might be shown?

Not all men are children of God! Your question seems to presuppose this idea,and worse than that seems to indicate you are questioning the Goodness and wisdom of God. You do not want to do that do you?
CTB.....whatever you believe has to be able to speak to the goodness and severity of God.

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Don't tell me God did it for his own glory as this makes God an egotistical monster.

Are you saying you cannot worship the God of the bible ,if indeed He is the same God that calvinists describe??
Do you really want to make this kind of statement??

Your own posts have totally convinced me that your form of Calvinism is incorrect.

What form of calvinism do you like...how about Spurgeon, or matthew henry?

 

[Rippon]

I am not much for "reformed" anything--reformed, revised, changed, altered, poisoned, not anymore genuine, etc.

As for me, I will stick to the Word of God, and its unalterable truths--those truths which have not been changed or reformed.

God's Word stands unrefurbished. But during the Reformation its truths were rediscovered and proclaimed with clarity. You owe a lot to the Reformation and its leaders.

If you aren't reforming you aren't growing.

 

[Skandelon]

No. the traditional Calvinist view is that regeneration precedes faith.

Do you believe a person can be regenerated for some time prior to coming to faith? For example, could someone be regenerated but remain unbelieving for hours, days, weeks, month or even years?

 

[DHK]

God's Word stands unrefurbished. But during the Reformation its truths were rediscovered and proclaimed with clarity. You owe a lot to the Reformation and its leaders.

If you aren't reforming you aren't growing.

No sir. I don't grow by reforming. Horrors!!
I grow by growing in the grace and knowledge of my Lord Jesus Christ. It is process called sanctification; not reformation.

What the unsaved need is regeneration; not reformation.

Either way you look at it, reformation is at the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Iconoclast]

No sir. I don't grow by reforming. Horrors!!
I grow by growing in the grace and knowledge of my Lord Jesus Christ. It is process called sanctification; not reformation.

What the unsaved need is regeneration; not reformation.

Either way you look at it, reformation is at the wrong end of the stick.

10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

God describes NT worship as a reformation, he was speaking of the reformation from Rome, not personal reformation..instead of salvation.You mis-read his post

 

[DHK]

God describes NT worship as a reformation, he was speaking of the reformation from Rome, not personal reformation..instead of salvation.You mis-read his post

Oh no, I didn't misread anything.
God does not describe NT worship as a reformation. Does God need reforming? It isn't man. Man first needs regeneration, and then sanctification. Reformation doesn't even enter the picture. If the believer sins he still doesn't need reformation, but rather repentance.

You can have your Billy Graham message of reformation and commitment.
I'll stick with what the Bible has to say.

 

[Iconoclast]

Oh no, I didn't misread anything.
God does not describe NT worship as a reformation. Does God need reforming? It isn't man. Man first needs regeneration, and then sanctification. Reformation doesn't even enter the picture. If the believer sins he still doesn't need reformation, but rather repentance.

You can have your Billy Graham message of reformation and commitment.
I'll stick with what the Bible has to say.

now thats 2 posts you do not understand!

 

[DHK]

now thats 2 posts you do not understand!

You are the one not understanding. Luther was a fool as long as he was a Reformer. So were the others. The RCC could not be reformed, and never will be reformed. Perhaps someday it will emerge as the false prophet in the Tribulation. I don't consider it as Christian denomination but as a false religion that has murdered countless of honest Bible-believing Christians. This horrid apostate organization Luther, et. al., could never reform. The Reformers were foolish to even try.

The Bible clearly says to "come from among them and be separate saith the Lord."
It always says separate, not infiltrate, or stay in and try to reform from within. That is not a Biblical philosophy. It is an anti-biblical philosophy. Separate from the ungodly. Don't join them

Rather than the reformers, they became Protestants (eventually), which the Baptists historically have always been (even before the so-called "Reformation.")

The idea of "reforming" either way you look at it, is not good.
As Protestants, the protested against the evil in the church--far more Biblical.

 

[Luke2427]

Do you believe a person can be regenerated for some time prior to coming to faith? For example, could someone be regenerated but remain unbelieving for hours, days, weeks, month or even years?

Get somebody else who is not a moderator to ask and I will answer them.

I've received two warnings in one day from a particular moderator and I choose not to debate those who throw their appointed weight around in a debate.

 

[Luke2427]

You are the one not understanding. Luther was a fool as long as he was a Reformer.

I can't believe this crud goes unchecked. Where is skandelon and the other mods when this kind of crud is said by fellow mods?

There are people called LUTHERANS. These people believe what Luther taught was the Word of God.

You just called them all FOOLS!

There are also people, many of whom are on this board, who consider themselves REFORMED.

You just called them FOOLS!

We might as well call Frank J. Norris and John R. Rice FOOLS!

But you mark this down. We'd get a warning sure as there the sun sets.