What is "Old Time Religion"

[Don]

If you are going to make it your goal in life to assault me

Assault: A violent physical or verbal attack

Do you honestly feel I have violently attacked you?

, at least quote me honestly.

Where did I quote you "dishonestly"?

Half thrown together worship is wickedness. The Lord deserves our best.

I think Bob is addressing this with his question to you.

But someone on here said that CALVINISTS tend to be the most arrogant bunch alive so I retorted saying that it is my experience that rednecks tend to be the most arrogant bunch alive.

Have you reprimanded the one who attacked Calvinists yet?

Really? You have a master's degree, and all you can come back with is, "well, they did it, so it's okay for me to do it"?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF...

Well, looks like the term "redneck" has been used to refer to both poor white farmers and coal miners, according to this redneck wikipedia article.

What state did your granddaddy work as a coal miner?

...Bob

I will have to give credit to my wifes family for Scottish Covenanter usage. They were Covenanter's & I guess according to the article, the 1st true rednecks...from Edinboro & Lenarkshire (the beginning of the Covenanter movement) & some of them were miners but most were farmers.

My Grandaddy worked most of Pennsylvania & his daddy & granddaddy worked coal miners in Wales, then Pennsylvania & WV but then they were Welsh so coal mining is in their blood & their lungs. I saw them go to work early & come home in the evening full of coal dust. Everyone till my fathers generation worked in the mines & I still have my granddaddys pick.

 

[Don]

EWF...

Well, looks like the term "redneck" has been used to refer to both poor white farmers and coal miners, according to this redneck wikipedia article.

What state did your granddaddy work as a coal miner?

...Bob

Hmmm...the "neck" of the woods I grew up in, the term was used towards those who spent all their time in the oil fields (denoting the (sometimes unbelieveably bad) sunburn on the back of their necks). Granted, they fit the definition of "poor white" most of the time; but they weren't "true" southerners, like we'd consider our friends in the Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, etc. areas.

 

[BobinKy]

I will have to give credit to my wifes family for Scottish Covenanter usage. They were Covenanter's & I guess according to the article, the 1st true rednecks...from Edinboro & Lenarkshire (the beginning of the Covenanter movement) & some of them were miners but most were farmers.

My Grandaddy worked most of Pennsylvania & his daddy & granddaddy worked coal miners in Wales, then Pennsylvania & WV but then they were Welsh so coal mining is in their blood & their lungs. I saw them go to work early & come home in the evening full of coal dust. Everyone till my fathers generation worked in the mines & I still have my granddaddys pick.

EWF...

My ancestors came from Edinburgh, Scotland in 1723. The early coal miners, I have read, were from Wales and taught the folks here how to mine coal. My wife had relatives who worked in the West Virginia mines. One was killed in a mining accident in the 1920s. My relatives worked the coal mines in eastern Kentucky.

Please be proud of your granddaddy's pick. Maybe sometime you can go to a trophy store and have some kind of plaque made up--in honor of your granddaddy and his relatives.

If you have not seen it, the movie Matewan (1987) is one of the few movies about coal miners. The setting is West Virginia; the plot is the operator-union battles of the 1920s. The movie is rated PG 13 for language and violence. Watch how your granddaddy might have used his pick in the opening scene at this youtube clip: MATEWAN Pt. 1.

...Bob

 

[Luke2427]

Luke2427...

Really now--what is this all about?

Do you really believe people worshiping the Lord is wickedness?

Please explain yourself, if not to me and the members of this forum, at least explain yourself to the Lord.


...Bob

Half thrown together worship is wickedness.

The Lord deserves our best.

I honestly do not know how else to explain it.

Read the book of Malachi for further information on how our Maker feels about it.

 

[Don]

Luke - you haven't explained how rednecks only "half throw together their worship."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF...

My ancestors came from Edinburgh, Scotland in 1723. The early coal miners, I have read, were from Wales and taught the folks here how to mine coal. My wife had relatives who worked in the West Virginia mines. One was killed in a mining accident in the 1920s. My relatives worked the coal mines in eastern Kentucky.

Please be proud of your granddaddy's pick. Maybe sometime you can go to a trophy store and have some kind of plaque made up--in honor of your granddaddy and his relatives.

If you have not seen it, the movie Matewan (1987) is one of the few movies about coal miners. The setting is West Virginia; the plot is the operator-union battles of the 1920s. The movie is rated PG 13 for language and violence. Watch how your granddaddy might have used his pick in the opening scene at this youtube clip: MATEWAN Pt. 1.

...Bob

Bob, all you would know about the family would be summered in the name " John Llewellyn Lewis " ....funny because Llewellyn & Lewis are family names. As with you, Ive been investigating my roots & so is my wife. My son is of Welsh, Italian, Slovak, Scot, German & Swiss (maybe even some English & French) linage IE total Heinz 57 American. LOL

BTW..... Have you ever been down a coal mine?

 

[BobinKy]

Bob, all you would know about the family would be summered in the name " John Llewellyn Lewis " ....funny because Llewellyn & Lewis are family names. As with you, Ive been investigating my roots & so is my wife. My son is of Welsh, Italian, Slovak, Scot, German & Swiss (maybe even some English & French) linage IE total Heinz 57 American. LOL

I just got in a few minutes ago from a 12-hour genealogy trip to find the graves of my wife's great-great-grandparents. We found the small family grave yard on top of a hill of the farm they used to own. All grown over. The grave markers, however, were in good condition.

BTW..... Have you ever been down a coal mine?

No, I have not. But I have visited coal mine museums and exhibits. Here is a list of coal mine museums from Google.

I do not know how far you are from Pittsburgh, PA. Here is a website for a coal mine museum about 20 minutes from Pittsburgh.

There are also several clips at YouTube, when you enter "coal mine" in the search bar.


...Bob

 

[BobinKy]

Half thrown together worship is wickedness.

The Lord deserves our best.

I honestly do not know how else to explain it.

Read the book of Malachi for further information on how our Maker feels about it.

Luke2427...

Thank you for responding to my question.

I disagree with your statement about the worship of rednecks, whether they be farmers, coal miners, or oil field workers.

When you pray tomorrow (Sunday), privately please ask God if this is what he wants you to publicly say.

If a pastor of a church made this statement in public, I would leave the church and not return. I think you will find there are many people who feel the same way as I do.

There is a saying, "You may be the only Jesus that some will ever see [or hear]."

Please pray about it.

...Bob

 

[kyredneck]

..... it is my experience that rednecks tend to be the most arrogant bunch alive......

Careful there buddy; I resemble that remark...

 

[Don]

Luke, you've had two others take offense to your public statement about rednecks; but you haven't responded.

Publicly, you've indicated that "rednecks" (poor southern whites) don't worship up to a certain standard; but all you've stated is that the Lord deserves our best, rather than "half thrown together" worship...implying that rednecks aren't giving it their all, and should strive for a higher standard--without identifying where they could be "doing better."

When you first posted this comment about rednecks, I made a comment about "elitism." You've pretty much confirmed that comment.

Two men went up on a hill to pray; which one came away justified?

Originally Posted by Luke2427
If you are going to make it your goal in life to assault me

You have publicly accused me of violently attacking you; prove it. Until you do, you're guilty of histrionics, and accusing me of something I haven't done.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke2427...

Thank you for responding to my question.

I disagree with your statement about the worship of rednecks, whether they be farmers, coal miners, or oil field workers.

When you pray tomorrow (Sunday), privately please ask God if this is what he wants you to publicly say.

If a pastor of a church made this statement in public, I would leave the church and not return. I think you will find there are many people who feel the same way as I do.

There is a saying, "You may be the only Jesus that some will ever see [or hear]."

Please pray about it.

...Bob

You are not a member of my church Bob. I am not your pastor. My role on baptist board is debater- not pastor.

Secondly, we obviously need to come to some sort of agreeable definition for the slippery term "rednecks" because, as I have already said very clearly, perhaps you missed it, being a country boy is not synonymous with being a "redneck" in the way I mean the term "redneck".

I have a great little half acre garden covered in peas and squash and cucumbers and peppers and tomatoes that I have personally planted and tended. I have laying chickens that I raise. I like trot lining for monster catfish as I do on occasion on the Tombigbee River where my cousin has a camp.

The way I mean "redneck" is SYNONYMOUS with "half thrown together".

I envision a service where the pastor is poorly prepared to preach, the music is slapped together at the last moment and nothing is carried out in a decent and orderly manner- I envision a service that is void of the dignity due to the worship of Almighty God.

And yes, I make no bones about this kind of thing in my pulpit. I call it great wickedness as did the Lord himself in the book of Malachi.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, you've had two others take offense to your public statement about rednecks; but you haven't responded.

Publicly, you've indicated that "rednecks" (poor southern whites) don't worship up to a certain standard; but all you've stated is that the Lord deserves our best, rather than "half thrown together" worship...implying that rednecks aren't giving it their all, and should strive for a higher standard--without identifying where they could be "doing better."

When you first posted this comment about rednecks, I made a comment about "elitism." You've pretty much confirmed that comment.

Two men went up on a hill to pray; which one came away justified?


You have publicly accused me of violently attacking you; prove it. Until you do, you're guilty of histrionics, and accusing me of something I haven't done.

Don, if I am going to converse with you, you are going to chill out.

See my post above to Bob.

It answers the few sensible comments you made.

The rest of those comments do not deserve to be dignified with a response.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I guess I need to pray here that gods people will come together on this thread & stop ripping each other up in ridiculous petty arguments.

 

[Don]

Don, if I am going to converse with you, you are going to chill out.

Get something straight, Luke: I will always call you out when you make an ambiguous comment that can--and usually is--construed as derogatory towards others. And I'll continue to call you on it, as I have here, until you finally explain yourself...which you've finally done. You telling me I am going to chill out...well, ask yourself: If *I* told *you* that, how would you receive it?

Further, if I made the statement that you assaulted me, you and I both know you'd be the first one to ask for the proof. So provide the proof, or admit that your use of the term was a little over the top. Unless you actually do feel that I've violently attacked you.

See my post above to Bob.

It answers the few sensible comments you made.

It does. It also points out that when individuals choose to use their own definitions for terms, it causes confusion that requires explanation.

The rest of those comments do not deserve to be dignified with a response.

As for my "elitism" statement, here's two things: You've now explained yourself, and as I pointed out in an earlier post, here's where I say: Oh, that's what you meant; I didn't understand what you meant, thanks for finally clarifying it. My bad.

Second, my caution to you is, the way you described "redneckism" in your response to Bob ... is not "redneck." It may be *your* definition of redneck, but it's not the generally accepted definition of the term, as has been evidenced by the discussion here between Bob and EWF.

What you described is described in Revelations as "the lukewarm church," which is rather to be spit out. It's not reserved for rednecks, or any other particular group. And like you, I despise it, as we all should.

 

[Luke2427]

Get something straight, Luke: I will always call you out when you make an ambiguous comment that can--and usually is--construed as derogatory towards others. And I'll continue to call you on it, as I have here, until you finally explain yourself...which you've finally done. You telling me I am going to chill out...well, ask yourself: If *I* told *you* that, how would you receive it?

Further, if I made the statement that you assaulted me, you and I both know you'd be the first one to ask for the proof. So provide the proof, or admit that your use of the term was a little over the top. Unless you actually do feel that I've violently attacked you.


It does. It also points out that when individuals choose to use their own definitions for terms, it causes confusion that requires explanation.


As for my "elitism" statement, here's two things: You've now explained yourself, and as I pointed out in an earlier post, here's where I say: Oh, that's what you meant; I didn't understand what you meant, thanks for finally clarifying it. My bad.

Second, my caution to you is, the way you described "redneckism" in your response to Bob ... is not "redneck." It may be *your* definition of redneck, but it's not the generally accepted definition of the term, as has been evidenced by the discussion here between Bob and EWF.

What you described is described in Revelations as "the lukewarm church," which is rather to be spit out. It's not reserved for rednecks, or any other particular group. And like you, I despise it, as we all should.

I introduced the term "redneck" so it was my responsibility to define it as I meant it which I might not have done completely.

Your definition of redneck is not accurate though.

World English Dictionary
redneck (ˈrɛdˌnɛk) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
1. (in the southwestern US) a poor uneducated White farm worker
2. a person or institution that is extremely reactionary

The two together really encompass what I meant.

I was referring to people who are uneducated and reactionary. I mean people who have no business talking about most things they talk about but are too arrogant to know it.

Elitism is not as big a problem as this thing I am describing as redneckism.

Elitists, in my understanding, tend to be snobby educated people- BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE SOME BASIS for their arrogance. They are EDUCATED. I am not saying it is ok. It is not.

But these people, who I am referring to as rednecks (not country boys- I am one of them), are AT LEAST as arrogant as the elitist from Harvard BUT THEY HAVE NO BASIS FOR SUCH ARROGANCE.

There are people who allow knowledge to puff them up- this is not good.
Then there are people who are puffed up without knowledge- this is far worse.


So when you, or whoever it was, made the offensive, derogatory and, I think ignorant remark that Calvinists tend to be arrogant- I'd say they tend to be less arrogant than these people I am referring to as rednecks.

Calvinists, in my experience, do tend to be more educated. For example, many if not MOST Presbyterian movements REQUIRE their ministers to have seminary education.

And perhaps there are many of them who have allowed their advantage in learning to puff them up- this is not good.

But far worse are people with little to NO theological training who spout off at the mouth incessantly their views and attack the views of others- this is arrogance to the inth degree.

If a man is not familiar with terms like infralapsarianism, the tetragrammaton, theology proper, Gnosticism, Docetism, Dualism, Modalistic Monarchianism, etc... if he does not know what the three major ecumenical creeds are and what they state, how the New Testament was canonized; if he doesn't know who Origen or Athanasius or Arius was- then he ought to approach something as deep and heavy as theology and church history with great humility. He ought to keep his words few on those matters.

But the people to whom I am referring as rednecks think they know so much that they can speak with as much authority as Al Mohler or D. A. Carson.

These types of people with no theological training but not enough humility to properly muzzle themselves- they are the dangerous ones, imo.

 

[Don]

I introduced the term "redneck" so it was my responsibility to define it as I meant it which I might not have done completely.

Thank you for the admission.

Your definition of redneck is not accurate though.

I believe I focused on the definition "poor white Southerners"; so, yes, I was accurate. In the context of your next few paragraphs, perhaps you meant to say that I wasn't "entirely" accurate.

But these people, who I am referring to as rednecks (not country boys- I am one of them), are AT LEAST as arrogant as the elitist from Harvard BUT THEY HAVE NO BASIS FOR SUCH ARROGANCE.

Emphasis (bold) was mine. Just pointing out: In any discussion, as you noted in your response to Bob, the terms have to be agreed upon before use by all parties. Otherwise, the discussion goes awry.

Might I suggest what EWF proposed in an earlier post? If you had used the term "yahoo," I think there would have been no question about to what you were referring.

So when you, or whoever it was, made the offensive, derogatory and, I think ignorant remark that Calvinists tend to be arrogant- I'd say they tend to be less arrogant than these people I am referring to as rednecks.

Wasn't me. If you think it actually was, then I ask you to please find the particular comment. I did write, in this thread, that I find you to be arrogant; but I make that determination in the way you write to others, not in your Calvinistic viewpoints.

 

[kyredneck]

Redneckism? Oh brother.

Luke, some of the most profound teaching/preaching I've ever heard came from uneducated, unpretentious, simple, common, country preachers.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Redneckism? Oh brother.

Luke, some of the most profound teaching/preaching I've ever heard came from uneducated, unpretentious, simple, common, country preachers.

Yes me too:thumbs:

 

[Old Union Brother]

Redneckism? Oh brother.

Luke, some of the most profound teaching/preaching I've ever heard came from uneducated, unpretentious, simple, common, country preachers.

Count me in on this!!!