Thanks for all the great info, but especially this line. I want to base my actions on scripture, not someone else's opinion or interpretation of scripture.
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Leaving IFB to become SBC
- Thread starter abcgrad94
- Start date
A few more questions, and I do ask this from the heart, not to cause debate, but because I'm searching for something better than what we've experienced.
In the SBC churches where you have served, have you been treated with love and respect? Do you feel the SBC's truly practice what they preach and focus more on loving people than on obeying rules or always "being right?" Do you think the burnout rate for pastors in SBC churches to be the same as in other churches, or better or worse?
In the SBC churches where you have served, have you been treated with love and respect? Do you feel the SBC's truly practice what they preach and focus more on loving people than on obeying rules or always "being right?" Do you think the burnout rate for pastors in SBC churches to be the same as in other churches, or better or worse?
Tom Butler
New Member
Southern Baptist Churches have a lot in common, but each church has its own personality. I can tell you about my own congregation, but not a lot about others. That's because to really get a feel, you have to be in their worship services, their Bible studies, their business meetings more than just a drop-in visit.
Churches also reflect their pastors. Years ago, our pastor liked some of the IFB pastors and their methods, the church began to reflect that. Subsequent pastors led us in different directions and our IFB phase passed, never to return.
abcgrad, if you find an SBC church without a pastor, get acquainted with two people: The chair of the pastor church committee and the chairman of the deacons. You'll learn quickly about that church and if there's any interest in looking at an "outsider." You'll get a quick education about that church's doctrines and practices and whether you're compatible.
There is one other person you might look up: the interim pastor. From him you'll get a candid evaluation of the church and your prospects.
Churches also reflect their pastors. Years ago, our pastor liked some of the IFB pastors and their methods, the church began to reflect that. Subsequent pastors led us in different directions and our IFB phase passed, never to return.
abcgrad, if you find an SBC church without a pastor, get acquainted with two people: The chair of the pastor church committee and the chairman of the deacons. You'll learn quickly about that church and if there's any interest in looking at an "outsider." You'll get a quick education about that church's doctrines and practices and whether you're compatible.
There is one other person you might look up: the interim pastor. From him you'll get a candid evaluation of the church and your prospects.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
I think it depends on the church, ABC. My own "used up" two perfectly good men who both left the ministry almost immediately after they left us. We are a hard church to pastor no doubt about it.
But I also remember that the man before them was here for longer than a dozen years. And he left us, rather than us running him off. (boy was that a scandal!)
I can also count several men who have pastored churches in our area for even longer than that.
Church politics happen everywhere. Big churches, small churches and medium sized ones. Unfortunately it seem you can't leave it behind entirely no matter where you go.
(((hugs)))
But I also remember that the man before them was here for longer than a dozen years. And he left us, rather than us running him off. (boy was that a scandal!)
I can also count several men who have pastored churches in our area for even longer than that.
Church politics happen everywhere. Big churches, small churches and medium sized ones. Unfortunately it seem you can't leave it behind entirely no matter where you go.
(((hugs)))
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
There is no template for SBC churches. It depends on the church and the atmosphere the pastor engenders if he stays there long enough.
I am now the longest serving pastor at our church. The church is 102 yo and I have been here 13 years. But before I came the previous longest serving pastor was 9 years and he had left because of a moral failure. The church had a reputation as a killing ground. We have not always been treated well, but God had called us here and hadn't called us away. So we stayed. Now the church is known for a sweet spirit that is used of God to heal those who have been hurt in other churches.
I have been treated with kindness, but every church has some idiots that will hurt you.
About the burn out rate: That phrase gets kicked around alot. I kknow some who have genuinely burnt out, but sometimes that phrase gets used after 2 years when the guy wants to go somewhere else. So I am probably not the one to ask about the rate.
About the rules thing: Churches differ. You'll find that some churches don't practice what they preach about the care and feeding of pastors. But others do. I am thankful I am part of one who does.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
I am SBC and disobeyed your instructions :tongue3:
That's why we're Baptists and believe in soul freedom about the issues that are not about the faith once delivered. You like the fact that churches individually can choose their missionaries. I like the fact that in the SBC missionaries can be called, ordained and sent out and get to the field as soon as able. I didn't like the fact that independent missionaries had to spend 2-3 years in deputation and then every 4 years spend their furlough on getting new churches to make up support for those churches that stopped sending their checks during the time they were on the field. To each his own...
Thank you, Tom. Although the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence, in reality many ministry situations are probably similar across the board.
Also, I didn't realize that SBC didn't have a hierchy. I was under the impression the churches all had to follow rules of the association, but from some of the posts in this thread, it seems that the SBC churches are basically independent, only with more accountability. Is that correct?
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Each level of the SBC is autonomous. You can do as little or as much with the local, state or national as you choose. Read the Baptist Faith and Message to discover if there are any major differences in what SB subscribe to. But, at the same time, we have no creedal statement we sign.
We are independent churches, we choose to cooperate with each other to fund missionaries, seminaries, disaster relief and other ministries through a central fund called the Cooperative program. There is no set amount of money a church gives. In our local ass'n, we have churches that give 2-3% and others, like our church, that gives .5%. No one can tell an SBC church how much to give. In fact, you can even designate your CP money to certain ministries.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
If you want a church heirarchy in hiring and firing and pay, you gotta to move to the Methodists. 
Our church decides as a church how much the "compensation package" for each person is and we vote on the total amount (includes basic pay, housing, insurance, SS, etc). We pay pretty well and believe our ministers should make a standard of living comparable with the average church member (or perhaps a little better).
Our church decides as a church how much the "compensation package" for each person is and we vote on the total amount (includes basic pay, housing, insurance, SS, etc). We pay pretty well and believe our ministers should make a standard of living comparable with the average church member (or perhaps a little better).
Part of what you say has merit. Part does not. All churches are getting too commercial, SBC and otherwise. IFBs are not exempt. I don't know of a single SB church that doesn't do invitations after sermons, and you'd be shot if you tried not to. SB churches pick their missionaries because they are sent by the churches to be trained by the seminaries then examined further before working with the International or North American Mission Board(s) to see where God is leading them. So it's a bit of a misnomer that the churches are hands-off. A local IFB church proudly supports 3 missionaries. They've never laid eyes on any of them. We have 2 or 3 come in per year, and our church supports over 10,000!
Besides, most are going back to a societal approach anyway
Invitations - In over a full year of preaching in a SBC, I only gave a public invitation a handful of times. In the church, I am presently attending -(I am not the pastor) weekly invitation is not the norm. I have attended other SBC's that no longer do weekly invitations
Missionaries - SBC = Co-op program / IFB =Deputation. That is probably the biggest difference between the SBC and IFB. But on the other hand, You would be surprised at the number of IFB missionaries that First Baptist, Atlanta(Stanley) supports! That started back in the '70 when FBC was seriously considering leaving the SBC. Right here in our own local association, the CNYBA part of our Act 1:8 missions is supporting a church plant in Peru. Well, one of our pastors is resigning his church to become a full time missionary to take over the work in Peru. He wanted to apply to the NAMB, but is not able since he has teenagers - so he is requesting our associational churches to financially support him. So I suppose the CNYBA is now an International Mission Board. The CNYBA has helped to plant many new churches here in CNY.
ABC, as far as be required to following rules - in a way its how you look at it. We had a church in our association whose pastor decided to divorce his wife and marry the church secretary. ( I know this as a fact, not as gossip) Our DOM did not think that was a great ideal. That church saw no problem with it. As a local association we could reccomend, but not make them dismiss the pastor. Therefore, our association voted to dis-fellowship with them. Remember we are a group of like minded Baptist in fellowship. We just felt that church was no longer a like minded church.
Bottom line, we are an independent church in mutual fellowship with the ABC, BCNY and CNYBA.
Missionaries - SBC = Co-op program / IFB =Deputation. That is probably the biggest difference between the SBC and IFB. But on the other hand, You would be surprised at the number of IFB missionaries that First Baptist, Atlanta(Stanley) supports! That started back in the '70 when FBC was seriously considering leaving the SBC. Right here in our own local association, the CNYBA part of our Act 1:8 missions is supporting a church plant in Peru. Well, one of our pastors is resigning his church to become a full time missionary to take over the work in Peru. He wanted to apply to the NAMB, but is not able since he has teenagers - so he is requesting our associational churches to financially support him. So I suppose the CNYBA is now an International Mission Board. The CNYBA has helped to plant many new churches here in CNY.
ABC, as far as be required to following rules - in a way its how you look at it. We had a church in our association whose pastor decided to divorce his wife and marry the church secretary. ( I know this as a fact, not as gossip) Our DOM did not think that was a great ideal. That church saw no problem with it. As a local association we could reccomend, but not make them dismiss the pastor. Therefore, our association voted to dis-fellowship with them. Remember we are a group of like minded Baptist in fellowship. We just felt that church was no longer a like minded church.
Bottom line, we are an independent church in mutual fellowship with the ABC, BCNY and CNYBA.
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mcdirector
Active Member
ABC, we've been in many SBC churches over the years. The ones we've been in have had more in common than not. That probably has much to do with the particular churches God led us to join! When I was leading associational conferences, I was in a ton of churches and that's where I saw differences - more or less formal, preferred version, traditional terminology verses new (like Sunday School vs Bible Fellowship), very large to very small. These were not doctrinal differences that I saw although I know there are some that exist - cal/armin for example.
Tom mentioned the Baptist faith and message and the cooperative program. Many churches ask that you agree with the Baptist Faith and Message. AND the cooperative program is one of the things I think that the SBC does really, really well. In addition to foreign and home missions, there are the seminaries. Brandon went to a SBC seminary and the cooperative program helps support SBC students at their seminaries.
Tom mentioned the Baptist faith and message and the cooperative program. Many churches ask that you agree with the Baptist Faith and Message. AND the cooperative program is one of the things I think that the SBC does really, really well. In addition to foreign and home missions, there are the seminaries. Brandon went to a SBC seminary and the cooperative program helps support SBC students at their seminaries.
I just saw this or I might have posted earlier.
First let me say that I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences in an IFB church or churches. I certainly won't deny that takes place. But of course it does in every group.
If you are in W. Virginia as someone said, please know that crowd is a good deal more radical than the IFB churches I know. There are many IFB churches much more relaxed than that. For a hint: if you want something more relaxed and laid back in the IFB movement, look for churches that still support ABWE or New Tribes missionaries.
As for Scripture, as a missionary I feel that the IFB way of doing world missions is closer to the Biblical model than the SBC way.
(1) IFB churches are more likely to have personal contact with missionaries and pray for them directly, and I think you see that contact over and over in Paul's epistles. I base that on the SBC churches I've been in. For example, years ago we were supported for awhile by a large SBC church in GA since my folks went there. Of all things, they asked me to preach for their Lottie Moon offering! And I was the only missionary there, and I never saw prayer letters of other missionaries, etc., when I was there.
(2) I firmly believe that, with all of its difficulties, missionaries being supported by individual churches is the Biblical way. And I say that while knowing that deputation was the most difficult thing I've ever done. Scripture: Phil. 4:14-15, 2 Cor. 11:7-8, etc.
idonthavetimeforthis
New Member
Our Southern Baptist Church makes personal contact with missionaries & we pray for them directly & we post prayer letters up on our bulletin board. Plus, the Cooperative program is individual churches supporting missionaries (but together, thus cooperating).
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
But JofJ is correct in that most SBC churches have little personal knowledge of our missionaries. So the pastor or church leadership has to set up activities to personalize missions.
There are trade offs to each type.
idonthavetimeforthis
New Member
I agree.
I'm thankful that I am a part of an association in which several of the pastors stress missions & missionaries.
glfredrick
New Member
Because each SBC church is autonomous, they can choose to know missionaries or not. I personally know over 100 foreign and probably close to that in national missionaries. When they are home on furlough we get together, have lunch, pray, talk about mission strategy, etc.
The Southern Baptists churches we belonged to as I was growing up never prayed on or voted on a missionary. They all sent their money to Nashville, and we never met a missionary, didn't really understand what they did, or how they survived. It was all every ethereal.
I meet and get to know the IFB missionaries when they are on deputation now. It is a joy to get to know them personally, that way I tie a face to and can envision what they are doing when they send their updates to us. I also have several friends on FB that are missionaries that we support. They post updates there too....what a blessing!!!
glfredrick
New Member
Interesting... The IMB actually spends quite a bit of money to produce a missions magazine that is available free to any SBC member who asks for it. They also have any number of other means of distributing information about missionaries (that they can talk openly of -- some are in places where covert operations are the norm and no one speaks names, places, activities, etc.).
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/549/page/1
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/3298
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/3374
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/3312
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/242
http://imbresources.org/index.cfm/product/detail/prodID/24
Of course, all the materials above are in their current itteration, they have changed over the years, but there has ALWAYS been something in print available to the churches that wanted it.
Also, the primary missions offering for international missions is the Lottie Moon offering. Each year the SBC mails out Lottie Moon material to churches that participate in the cooperative program (basically the only necessity to be an SBC church) so your pastor, whomever that was at the time, would have had the information at hand. He may have chose to not share it with the church or you may not have been part of some missions group that looked at the information. I've seen both happen.
http://www.imb.org/main/give/pagelm.asp?StoryID=8078&LanguageID=1709
As far as "voting on a missionary" that would mean that your church never sent one up. If they had, you would have voted in your local church! There are regular commissioning services for IMB missionaries that any SBC member can (and should!) attend.