quantumfaith
Active Member
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True/False : it is The Will of God that NONE perish, All Receive His Son Jesus!
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
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preacher4truth
Active Member
At least you continue to admit you believe you are saved by works. You're correct, I am saved by grace. It is all Him. I did nothing. I have an adversion to good works? Uh. LOL!!!! Wrong again. Yet another fabricated assumption. You love and make lies...more to come.
That you say that I say I don't see it is yet one more fabrication by you.
Nowhere have I ever preached, nor even come close to say a thing about license to sin. Yet another fabrication from you.
You have preached over and over that your election/salvation is based on God judging your works, then choosing to save you thereby. You've taught your salvation is by works, merited by what you have done. So, yep. You have said salvation is by works.
No fabrication there. Anyone can go back and find it.
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I don't mind you calling me names, but calling Tom "hero" is truly insulting. Although we often disagree, I find Tom to be one of the fairest minded persons at BB. He always listens, and seems to always at least to consider other's points of view.
Your insult was uncalled for.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Winman,
Correct me if I am wrong, I do not see you anywhere claiming that "works" is some sort of prerequisite for one being saved. I interpret your statements as meaning that when one possesses a saving faith, then "works" are a natural reaction to God's grace and salvation. And yes, I agree that "works" that we do throughout our lives will be at least one of the variables that God will use when passing judgment upon us.
Correct me if I am wrong, I do not see you anywhere claiming that "works" is some sort of prerequisite for one being saved. I interpret your statements as meaning that when one possesses a saving faith, then "works" are a natural reaction to God's grace and salvation. And yes, I agree that "works" that we do throughout our lives will be at least one of the variables that God will use when passing judgment upon us.
preacher4truth
Active Member
preacher4truth
Active Member
Winman has stated over and over our election is conditional on God judging our works.
Anyone not "seeing" this anywhere is also fabricating and deceiving oneself.
So you've been, uh ...well, you know...since you're wrong.
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Anyone not "seeing" this anywhere is also fabricating and deceiving oneself.
So you've been, uh ...well, you know...since you're wrong.
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Dr Mixer GED
Member
Man, please share some of that humble pie :laugh:
No, what I am saying is that if a person truly believes and trusts in Christ they will at least attempt to turn from sin. We all sin, but no true Christian lives in license and continuous sin. You admit we cannot live in license, and in so doing agree our works are important.
I am also saying election is not unconditional, read the parable of the wedding in Matthew 22. Only those who submitted and obeyed the king when they were called to the wedding were chosen. Those who disobeyed and did not come when called were destroyed.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Whether you like it or not, those who obeyed the king were chosen.
quantumfaith
Active Member
preacher4truth
Active Member
What I don't like winman is you putting words in my mouth that I've never said, such as license to sin implications, and other nonsense to which you who believes in good works should admit to sioing and apologizing for.
Secondly, you are making a parable more than what it is.
You can do how much without Him? Nothing.
He did it all.
You won't believe it by foolish pride. You believe you've earned it. You've stated so many times by implication.
Now be a big man of works and admit you've accused me of things I've never said. Which you have done.
No, Tom is one of the few gentlemen around here, I said that months ago in a thread where we were asked to say something nice about others. I was sincere then, and I am sincere now.
Tom Butler
New Member
Another word for it is "crow."
One of my fellow deacons and I have this running joke with each other. I wrote here one time that the church had given him a lapel button signifying that he was the most humble man in the church.
But when he wore it to church, we took it back!
Well, we could not attend the wedding unless we were FIRST invited, but it is our duty to obey and come.
Trusting Jesus is an act of obedience, as shown by Paul.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Paul didn't say "obeyed" by accident, trusting in Jesus is submitting to and obeying God.
This work does not merit our salvation, as our sins negate any righteous acts we might perform, but it is absolutely necessary that we obey the gospel to be saved.
And I owe you no apology, your view makes good and evil meaningless.
If you are elected unconditionally, what do your sins or righteousness matter? They don't. By the definition of "unconditional" your salvation or damnation has nothing to do with either sin or righteousness. That is the very definition of unconditional.
So, what does it matter if you do good if you were elected unconditionally? None of your works factor in salvation, so why not sin? This is the logical conclusion of your view. This is the very false doctrine Paul argued against.
If you are elected unconditionally, what do your sins or righteousness matter? They don't. By the definition of "unconditional" your salvation or damnation has nothing to do with either sin or righteousness. That is the very definition of unconditional.
So, what does it matter if you do good if you were elected unconditionally? None of your works factor in salvation, so why not sin? This is the logical conclusion of your view. This is the very false doctrine Paul argued against.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Yes, you certainly owe me one for lying and fabricating lies and words.
More illogical thought by yourself.
I had no righteousness before salvation. You on the other hand believe you did obviously. Sin-wise, mine are nailed to the tree. He did that when he elected me by grace, not works, unconditionally. I was a vile unrighteous sinner when He saved me by His unconditional election of grace. "...in that, while we were yet sinners." Not "in that when you were performing good works" as you say is how it happened to you. But, I know you don't like Him doing that, but he does anyhow. As a matter of fact on your above accusations, it's blasphemous what you are saying about my salvation in that it has nothing to do with sins & c. None of it is even true or what I've said or thought.
Take it up with God, you're the one who has a problem with His Ways of Sovereign election, and with Him in general.
Seriously? How many are "good" according to Jesus Winman? None but God? But according to you, you were. Unbelievable! And then for this He conditionally saved you. Wow. How many are there that "doeth good?" None? Oh, nevermind, you have your words and ideas, then there is what God says that conflicts with what you say.
Your works are filthy rags. God says so. You? You think your works earned you salvation and are fabulous in the sight of God. Then He saved you for your works. Amazing that you a Baptist believes this! That is exactly what you are saying above. You did good, then God saved you for this. His work matters, not yours. But that's your unbiblical belief. Do you not see how this reeks of Watchtowerism and other works based theologies? They also believe this false teaching, and also propagate it as you are doing.
But let's talk works here. Yours specifically. You've lied about me. That's the works we are talking about here. Biblically I've asked you to repent, showing how you've done so. You've refused to apologize, and I know my biblical duty toward you, and yours toward me in this. That, and I do recall your lying ways last tour on here between us. It's well known. You love and make lies, and won't repent.
That's between you and God now.
That you won't apologize to a brother for lying is a commentary on your character.
I did my biblical duty in all honesty.
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Seriously Winman do you believe in Original Sin & its corruptible influence on man? I mean seriously, do you agree with the doctrine of total depravity?
preacher4truth
Active Member
At least someone else can see his error besides myself. He doesn't believe Gods account of man, he believes he earned grace/election by works. It's plainly apparent. It's unscriptural as can be. I'd stand alone on it, with God, but it's good that an honest brother can come along and say the truth also.
And this isn't really even about calvinism per se. It is about works based election, which he espouses.
You gotta love the haters on here that come by with a drive by to support his erroneous views and accuse me unfounded. It's interesting that they call evil (his unscriptural works based religion/earned election) good. He's plainly stated it. But, God has something to say about those in such a case.
I quit caring what others thought about me when Jesus saved me. :thumbsup:
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Nope, as he has stated here that doctrine is heresy brought into Church by Augustine, and "baptised" by John calvin...
basically, man is not a sinner by birth, but by free will choice...
jesus in that way of theology born SAME as we are, He had SAME Human nature as us...
basically, man not born a sinner by nature, chooses such later on ...
jesus same as we are in sense can choose to sin or not....
preacher4truth
Active Member
Your logic is flawed. Psalm 51:5 disagrees with your premise that by free will we became sinners later. Adam already has undone that by bringing death and sin upon us all.
We were all born in sin.
The truth we were born in sin does not and did not pass over to the Lord Jesus Christ as you say it would have. His purpose and ministry and person has power over that.
I'm not certain EWF was embracing "original sin" as a doctrine but perhaps using this as an example that we're are all born sinful beings, under death, dead spiritually.
Jesus, who is God, had an option that perhaps He could sin? Really? The one who has no darkness at all, nor hint that He could ever change? I don't think so, friend.