Salvation minus repentance equals salvation?

[preacher4truth]

2Pet.3:9 says "unto repentance;" it does not say one must repent of any sin to be saved. Furthermore, it is God's will and desire for all men to be saved, whereas we know all men will not be saved. It is an expressed desire. There is no "repent from" in order to be saved in that verse.

Uh. Not quite. He awaits them to come to repentance. It's salvational. Obviously if He awaits them to repent, they must be repenting "from" something. Wrong again.

What many other verses? 2 Peter 3:9 is very clear. Many scholars and commentaries agree God awaits repentant ones to receive His Son.

I had to define repentance for you, a definition I still don't think you have quite comprehended, and why it is not used in the epistles.

lolololol!!!! Yeah, sure. It's used in the Epistles. We've shown you. Numerous times.

To challenge one, it is not in the epistles.

Bologna

To challenge two, it doesn't say one must repent of all their sins.

Garlic Bologna. And you're the only one coming up with this "repent of all their sins" nonsense. I've never said this one time. That's all on you.

It fails on both counts.

Not quite. It was 100% successful.

By your definition. It does not meet the challenges that I issued you.

I didn't ask for verse with the word "repent" in it. I asked very specific questions which apparently you are not able to answer and for good reason.

Too bad. I gave you one anyhow.

"Uh. Naw"...sums up all you've said. But I'll elaborate!

Oh, another personal slam? I'm "not able?" I'm very capable thanks.

Then you had to "define" something for me, repentance? Uh. Naw. Another personal slam? I can't comprehend? Another still? Repentance is in the NT epistles. We've shown you many times. :sleep:

As to 2 Peter 3:9:

What in the world do you think God is waiting for them to repent for, fella? So He can send them to hell? Quit with your wrangling things to mean what YOU want them to. He is withholding His Son until others come to repentance. Which to Him means His Son. And to others who can interpret this passage and its meaning without having to have it say what they want, it means to salvation.

What you asked for you got, then you changed what you meant to ask for because you got shown that it's right there.

It is clear this is salvific. Should I apologize it has the word repent in it? :laugh:

And you're mad about this whole thing, it shines through. Next time list out all your little rules, like it can't have the word repent (the reason you're so mad because it had the word, and made it so apparent that repentance is in the NT Epistles salvifically). Unreal. Mad it has the word "repent" in it. LOL!

And as too your numerous "I didn't ask for..." qualifiers? I really couldn't care less. Anytime you are answered you change what you want.

By the way, I have freedom to answer to the depth I feel in answering your questions, as anyone else on here also has.

It is totally clear God is awaiting persons to be saved in 2 Peter 3:9 no matter how you try and bring it to mean your theology. That's called eisegetical analysis.

It is salvational. God is awaiting those who he has ordained to eternal life to repent. It's called waiting for them to be saved. :wavey:

Next question? You've clearly been shown that repentance in the salvific sense is definitely in a NT Epistle.

 

[DHK]

Next question? You've clearly been shown that repentance in the salvivic sense is definitely in a NT Epistle.

You don't know how to answer a question do you.

 

[preacher4truth]

You don't know how to answer a question do you.

Uh, I most certainly do know how.

You don't know how to accept that you were wrong, do you?

2 Peter 3:9. Salvational. Qualified by repentance.

Me BIG WINNA!!!!! :thumbsup:

Next question with rules.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes you did. I believe in repentance. I have said that many times, and have defined it many times. What happened when you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Your attitude toward God changed (repentance). Because He became your Lord, you became obedient to him, whereas before you were rebellious toward him. Repentance is a change of attitude toward God. And that change of attitude caused you to give up your sinful habits. You became a new creature in Christ.

Let's look at it another way. Did you have to repent of your sins in order to be saved. If you did, then you have a works salvation. Salvation is not reformation, but regeneration. It is not doing this and that, and this and that; and cleaning up your life in order to be saved. Do I have to repent of all my sins and get my life all in order before I can be saved. I hope not. I will never be saved if that is true. That is a religion that is based on works. The Bible does not teach: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent and you shall be saved. It simply says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Why are people adding to the word of God?

Think many of us here are stating that it all hinges on HOW you define repentance...

NONE of us ever said God demands you to repent of ALL lnown sins before coming to Jesus...

We are saying JUST what the Bible is saying, regardless if address in Gospels/Acts/Epistles/revealtion etc

Biblical command/requirement is for sinners to repent/change mind on how they view their own sinfullness, and agree with God helpless to save ourselves, and oplace faith in jesus to save us due to our repentance, which is basically agrreing with God that we are sinners unable to save ourselves!

 

[psalms109:31]

Ordained

Who has God ordained to eternal life

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and turn away from evil

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.

Who is not ordained to eternal life

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

I truely believe that it is the work of God that we believe, Without Him we do not know what to believe and how do we believe in it. We are dependant on Him. It begins by trusting in Him and listening and learning from Him. The prophets of old been preparing us for Christ return and how to come to Him, but we have not been listening.

 

[DHK]

Uh, I most certainly do know how.

You don't know how to accept that you were wrong, do you?

2 Peter 3:9. Salvational. Qualified by repentance.

Me BIG WINNA!!!!! :thumbsup:

Next question with rules.

No, if you take post 92 and 109 on the other thread and honestly answer them you will see that 2Peter 3:9 nor Acts 17:30 does not answer either one. You want to change my question. I am the one that asked the question. If you can't answer it, just say so.

 

[DHK]

Think many of us here are stating that it all hinges on HOW you define repentance...

NONE of us ever said God demands you to repent of ALL lnown sins before coming to Jesus...

Maybe not quite that extreme, but some have said "repent of your sins," which is getting pretty close.

We are saying JUST what the Bible is saying, regardless if address in Gospels/Acts/Epistles/revealtion etc

Biblical command/requirement is for sinners to repent/change mind on how they view their own sinfullness, and agree with God helpless to save ourselves, and oplace faith in jesus to save us due to our repentance, which is basically agrreing with God that we are sinners unable to save ourselves!

I wasn't addressing all those issues.
I was addressing only one issue, and that is repentance. You have confused it. "Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God." That is all it is in its simplest form.
It is not agreeing with God that man is helpless to save himself.
It is not placing one's faith in Jesus due to our repentance (however you have defined it).
It is not agreeing with God that we are sinners unable to save ourselves.
That is not repentance.

 

[preacher4truth]

No, if you take post 92 and 109 on the other thread and honestly answer them you will see that 2Peter 3:9 nor Acts 17:30 does not answer either one. You want to change my question. I am the one that asked the question. If you can't answer it, just say so.

You stated that repentance wasn't mentioned salvificly in the NT epistles after Acts.

And implied it is not then necessary. We showed you it is presented in a salvational context. 2 Peter 3:9. Then you changed the rules, added the "repent of their sins part" then the "repent of all their sins" part. :sleep:

Please.

You were wrong and answered directly.

 

[DHK]

You stated that repentance wasn't mentioned salvificly in the NT epistles after Acts.

And implied it is not then necessary. We showed you it is presented in a salvational context. 2 Peter 3:9. Then you changed the rules, added the "repent of their sins part" then the "repent of all their sins" part. :sleep:

Please.

You were wrong and answered directly.

I didn't change any rules! I asked two separate questions. And you can't seem to answer them because you want to take part of one and part of another and put them into one question. That is not what it is. They are two separate questions. Comprenez-Vous?

 

[preacher4truth]

I didn't change any rules! I asked two separate questions. And you can't seem to answer them because you want to take part of one and part of another and put them into one question. That is not what it is. They are two separate questions. Comprenez-Vous?

Bologna...

post 92:

Aside from the Book of Acts and the gospels, can you show me where repentance is part of the gospel? The Gospels were pre-cross, and Acts is a historical book which is a book of transition. Most of our doctrine actually comes from the epistles. Where in the epistles does it tell us that repentance is part of the gospel?

You implied that repentance was no longer necessary after Acts and that is why it is never menetioned with regards to salvation after that in ANY NT Epistle. Correct? Well, you are wrong and we showed you. 2 Peter 3:9


Post 109 you CLEARLY switch gears from "show me where repentance is salvational in the NT epistles" (which we did) to "show me where it is said by God to repent of their sins." in post 109. (which is what Acts 17:30 implies)

You changed the entire thing to soothe yourself after we showed you an answer, clearly, to your initial questioning and proved repentance is in an NT Epistle in a salvational sense. You were actually shown two passages. One by havensdad. Then you changed it and started this "what you really wanted" coupled with personal attacks on others comprehension, and intellect. :thumbsup:

So yeah, you did change the rules.

 

[HankD]

Again, another way of looking at "repentance"-meta-noia (to change the mind), is to strip it of the theological baggage it has accumulated along the way.

Look at the word meta-morphoo (to change form) in

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed (meta-morphoo) by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.​

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed (meta-morphoo) into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.​

Repentance is another way of saying not only to change one's mind but to think new thoughts with our sanctified minds (via the rebirth).​

If one is born from above it stands to reason that we will have a changed mind, we will think new thoughts, specifically those taught to us by the Spirit of God.​

One day we loved our sin, nurtured it and sought better ways to gratiate oursleves with our sin.​

Next day (assuming faith) we hated our sin and sought God, His Kingdom and His word. Why? We have a sanctified mind from God through the new birth.​

I believe it is also part of our sanctification as we cooperate with the Spirit to purify ourselves even as He is pure...

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;​

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.​

HankD​

 

[JesusFan]

Maybe not quite that extreme, but some have said "repent of your sins," which is getting pretty close.

I wasn't addressing all those issues.
I was addressing only one issue, and that is repentance. You have confused it. "Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God." That is all it is in its simplest form.
It is not agreeing with God that man is helpless to save himself.
It is not placing one's faith in Jesus due to our repentance (however you have defined it).
It is not agreeing with God that we are sinners unable to save ourselves.
That is not repentance.

It fits the concept of basically having our sinful "mind set" turn around and start to see things the way God "mind set" says they really are...

Question...

When jesus healed/saved peoples in Gospels and commanded them to 'sin no more" wasn't that making a direct request to repent of that sin, and walk away from it?

 

[DHK]

It fits the concept of basically having our sinful "mind set" turn around and start to see things the way God "mind set" says they really are...

Question...

When jesus healed/saved peoples in Gospels and commanded them to 'sin no more" wasn't that making a direct request to repent of that sin, and walk away from it?

It was. But that request was also made and should always be made to believers. Believers need to repent of their sins, not unbelievers. Thus we have 1John 1:9, a verse that is applicable only to believers. We need to bring our sins daily to the Lord, confess them, repent of them, if we are to have continuous fellowship with our God.

The woman to whom he said, "Go and sin no more," was an adulteress. He was telling her not to continue in her sin of adultery.

 

[preacher4truth]

It was. But that request was also made and should always be made to believers. Believers need to repent of their sins, not unbelievers. Thus we have 1John 1:9, a verse that is applicable only to believers. We need to bring our sins daily to the Lord, confess them, repent of them, if we are to have continuous fellowship with our God.

The woman to whom he said, "Go and sin no more," was an adulteress. He was telling her not to continue in her sin of adultery.

Unbelievers are told to repent. Acts 17:30. 2 Peter 3:9 God awaits unbelievers to come to repentance.

"Thus we have 1 John 1:9" is not a logical flow nor a proof-text proving unbelievers are not told to repent, especially when other texts show the contrary to be true.

Oh boy...

 

[DHK]

Bologna...

post 92:

You implied that repentance was no longer necessary after Acts and that is why it is never menetioned with regards to salvation after that in ANY NT Epistle. Correct? Well, you are wrong and we showed you. 2 Peter 3:9

This verse does not say one needs to repent in order to be saved, does it. That is not the message of the gospel. The verb used is "unto repentance," future tense. It is not a message of "repent and be saved." The command to repent is not there.

Post 109 you CLEARLY switch gears from "show me where repentance is salvational in the NT epistles" (which we did) to "show me where it is said by God to repent of their sins." in post 109. (which is what Acts 17:30 implies)

I didn't change anything. I offered another challenge. Show me in the Bible where one must repent of all their sins. This is an unbiblical concept nowhere taught in the Bible.
This challenge has nothing to do with post #92 There is no changing of the rules. It is a different question entirely.
Acts 17:30 says nothing about repenting of ones sins, especially of repenting of all of one's sins. Where do you get that from?

You changed the entire thing to soothe yourself after we showed you an answer, clearly, to your initial questioning and proved repentance is in an NT Epistle in a salvational sense.

You never answered my first question. 2Pet.3:9 doesn't do the trick.

You were actually shown two passages. One by havensdad. Then you changed it and started this "what you really wanted" coupled with personal attacks on others comprehension, and intellect.

I haven't received any verses that answer those two questions because you cannot provide any. There aren't any. The reason: Repentance is not part of the gospel message. Read 1Cor.15:1-4 where Paul clearly explains what the gospel message is. You will find out there what the gospel is. Repent is not part of it.

So yeah, you did change the rules.

No, I asked two different questions. You never answered either one correctly.

 

[Tom Butler]

I find this interesting.
Paul, in Acts 17:30, said God "commands all men everywhere to repent."

A couple of verses later, the response to the command to repent: "Some believed."

It's been said before. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin.

 

[DHK]

Unbelievers are told to repent. Acts 17:30. 2 Peter 3:9 God awaits unbelievers to come to repentance.

"Thus we have 1 John 1:9" is not a logical flow nor a proof-text proving unbelievers are not told to repent, especially when other texts show the contrary to be true.

Oh boy...

This post shows that you do not understand what repentance is. If you do not understand repentance, you tread on dangerous ground. Be careful. Go and study this subject carefully.

 

[DHK]

I find this interesting.
Paul, in Acts 17:30, said God "commands all men everywhere to repent."

A couple of verses later, the response to the command to repent: "Some believed."

It's been said before. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin.

Absolutely. I have been trying to teach this truth, but have been miserably failing.

 

[preacher4truth]

This post shows that you do not understand what repentance is. If you do not understand repentance, you tread on dangerous ground. Be careful. Go and study this subject carefully.

More personal attacks.

 

[preacher4truth]

I didn't change anything. I offered another challenge. Show me in the Bible where one must repent of all their sins. This is an unbiblical concept nowhere taught in the Bible.

Stop with your nonsence and twisting.

I've never taught this definition of repentance. But nice try.

Nowhere have I said a thing about "repenting of all their sins" so quit laying this on me as if I did. I never defined repentance, never even tried. :love2:

Now you're acting like "somewhere" I did. Go look, it's not there. Get it? GOOD!

I simply proved you wrong in this: (pay attention this time) :wavey:

You said salvational gospel repentance is not in ANY NT Epistle. I proved you wrong. It's in 2 Peter 3:9. It is salvational. You added the "of all their sins" nonsense to blur it. Again, I never defined repentance. I only showed you it is NT Epistle language in a salvational context. Showing you are clearly wrong.

God awaits men to repent. Which is salvational by its implication, and the CONTEXT supports it.

Fact is, you were shown it is necessary, it is part of salvation, and it is in the NT Epistle.

I'm done.