How Calvin helped create Unitarianism

Key words: may be. I didn't say he is. I don't count out the possibility that he could have ended up that way in the latter years of his life. People change: some for good some for bad. Depending on your perspective what happened with Tertullian. What did he believe early on, and what did he believe later in life when he became a Montanist?

No, if you were accurate you could have quoted me.

Then why does every source I have read say otherwise, even the encyclopedias and dictionaries that are not even evangelical. Again, people change with time. Because he was evangelical during one part of his life doesn't mean that he was like that all the way through.

Same point I have been making above. Westcott wasn't perfect. There is plenty of evidence out there that he was a liberal. Why would you deny that just because a couple of his books are not? Why not consider all the evidence and piece it all together?

Read his book again, if you haven't already. He denies being KJVO. He says that that camp is full of error. If he were posting on this board he would put himself in the KJV preferred camp. Don't mislabel him if you don't know what he really believes.

Maybe they do. You should look into that.

Did you ever wonder how "Majority Text", and "Received Text" got their names?

It probably was.

And Ruckman and Billy Graham both went to BJU. So what?

 

More negative specualtion on your part. But you are getting away from the point. You said that they may have subscribed to Unitarianism. That is utter bunk --just from the imagination of Naz. You have absolutely no evidence that Westcott was a Unitarian --own up.

What's with you? I quoted you exactly. What is your problem?

Again,you are engaging in pure, unsubstantiated, negative speculation. You can't lay a finger on anything to pin him with.

I'd say that "a couple of his books" would convince a normal Christian.

Norman Geisler calls himself a moderate Calvinist. He's anything but that.

Sorenson can deny his KJVO status --but yet he is without a doubt. Ever heard of Doug Kutilek?

Perhaps you need to crack open a real Church History book every now and then. The next thing you know you'll be claiming Erasmus was basically an IFB! LOL!

 

you Go Rippon....dont call you RIP for notin! LOL Go Rippon, Go Rippon, Go Rippon:smilewinkgrin:

 

I'm rip-roaring!

 

LOL....well now......nope, not going there LOL

 

Listen Up and Respond

This makes the 5th time I have made the request of DHK to support his contention --he needs to demonstrate his claim with some solid evidence.

Isn't it strange that he misses my repeated posts to backup his assertions?

 

This is from your post #128.

Give documentation to buttress your charge.

 

But I think once you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am," the rest is soon to foller.

 

What documentation is there to give. I made a statement as a result of my own search which you can do to verify the same results. I did a search on "B.F. Westcott" As with any search hundreds of links (URL's) showed up. I glanced through them. Here is my statement of which you think needs documentation.

That does not need any documentation. I told you what I observed when I did a search. If you don't believe me repeat the search yourself.

 

Finally ...

There you go. There is no documentation that you can offer --only gossip spread by KJVO extremists like Riplinger,Waite and Sorenson.

You really need to evidence some discernment when it comes this junk DHK. Just because a lot of websites report this and that --without actual proof --you should not be passing it on. You sound rather naive.

 

Most of the websites I saw connected Hort with the occult.

This is an observation. It is what I saw.
I am not accusing anyone of anything. It is you that are falsely accusing me and I resent the false accusations. Perhaps go back to school and learn how to read.
I did not gossip; I posted what I observed.
I did not refer to any KJVO extremists.
I did not refer to any of the names you posted.

You need to calm down, perhaps take a sedative or something before you post again.
I posted what I observed. If you want to verify my results then do a search of your own and see if you don't come up with the same results.

It was an observation.

 

The point is --what kind of websites were they? If you look up UFO's you are going to encounter a lot of nonsense on the web about the subject. You need to indicate that you realize that most of the stuff posted about Hort and the occult originates from KJVO extremists. They regurgitate a lot from Gail Riplinger and some don't even acknowlege that. I hope I don't have to inform you that she is not trustworthy in the least. David Sorenson has picked up on a lot of what G.A.R. writes and passes it on without doing his homework. He gives false citations because Gail did so in the first place.

Yes,and what you have seen is not worth a plug nickel.

Listen,you didn't get anywhere with your assertions of Westcott's supposed Unitarianism either. Don't support tabloid-style "reports."

You are the one to talk after I asked you the same question five times. I asked you to prove Hort's alleged occuly involvement and you said that you already did --when the article you produced had absolutely nothing to say about it. You made the same claim twice. Now you try to turn it around and say I have a comprehension problem? I don't think so.

 

Is investigating supposed supernatural events the same thing as
involved with the occult? No. And Hort didn't "confess",he related. What was his sin?

You have an unmistakable Riplingerish way about you.

In post #109 when he agreed with you about Hort being involved with the occult.

Like you have room to talk. You have called a number of Christian scholars Unitarians,pagans,godless,stupid,dumb, and on and on and on. You are the fountainhead of misinformation to put it nicely.

You my dear Naz, are not the one who should be lecturing anyone about toning it down. That's why so many of your remarks on the BB have been deleted.

 

The only one I remember was connected with a website sponsored by "preterists." I remember because I thought it was odd. The rest I don't know. It didn't matter to me. Their may have been an officially sanctioned RCC site as well. Like I said, "an observation that you have upon yourself to turn into a personal attack, or as Naz has pointed out, harassment.

If you have anything against what I have posted then prove it.
Put up or shut up!!

 

You say this kind of worthless stuff so often it has become your mantra. Document your charge.

"Saying things"? Saying slanderous things. He had agreed with you earlier that Westcott was a Unitarian --though he seems to have stepped away from that assertion after actually reading what the man actually wrote --- his commentary on the Gospel of John. You even stepped back a bit after your initial harsh charges couldn't stand the litmus test of truth.

Not much "digging" was required.

 

Like I have said before :most of the websites that "report" this junk are KJVO. You need to show some needed discernment before you may your "observations". The majority report on many given subjects are often false --especially when it comes to stuff on the web.

I googled :"Hort's involvement with the occult." On the first page here's what I got:

www.maranatha.ca [a kjvo site]

www.psalm118 [a kjvo site]

worldfamine.com [a kjvo site]

watch.pair.com [a kjvo site]

www.kingjamesbible.com [need I tell you?]

HipandThigh [non-KJVO. It's run by the very reasonable Fred Butler.]

answers.yahoo.com [the lead "article" was most certainly KJVO.]

amazingdiscoveries.org [kjvo]

www.westcotthort.com [A non-kjvo site run by the astute James May.]

falseflags.wordpress.com [a kjvo site]

So what do we have here? Well 80% were KJVO,and the remaining 20% were non-KJVO.What does that tell us? Most of the information posted on the subject-at-hand is bogus, with an agenda to nail Mr.Hort with whatever they can throw against the wall.

I just did. I will continue to do the same.

Copycat! I told you that when you said on 6/22/11 :"Calvin is known for his plagiarism."

That charge is completely false. You know it is. No scholar has come up with that allegation --- even the stronger non-Calvinistic ones.Yet you don't own up to your slander. You either become evasive or attempt to twist my words in an effort to escape from your words. It doesn't occur to you to admit you were wrong and move on.

Let me sum some things up :

Calvin was no plagiarist.

Westcott and Hort were not Unitarians.

Westcott was a theological conservative.

Hort was not involved with the occult.

 

You know when the KJV of the bible came out in 1611 there was a lot of animosity aroused by it because most were faithful to their Geneva Bibles. Though the KJV is a great translation and they made use of several documents not just the TR (which admitadly has its share of problems) to try to get the best meaning to what they thought they could descern a being close to the autographs as possible. The Byzantine Text incomplete as it was was well used in the East but notably because of its tie in to John Chrysotsom's Liturgy regularily used by the Eastern Churches. People quickly overlook this obvious bias.