Paul’s Response to the Thessalonians Tells us the Nature & Timing of the 2nd Coming

So the Holy Spirt was not wrong He made it very clear that it would be a physical return and Christ would be seen of ALL.
Verse 10 says He will be Glorified in His saints, that would be the Chruch Saints. Because "(because our testimony among you was believed)" since we have a parenthetic statement in verse 10 let's see the verse without it, "When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day." He will be admired by those who are believers in that day what day the day of His return, not The Holy Spirit didn't say will be admired by "ye" in that day, but by them that believe, makes it very clear a future day when He will be seen by the Saints of that day.

Then in Chapter 2 the Holy Spirit again corrects the error of those that said it was a "Spiritual" or "metaphorical" return he makes it clear that they should not be shaken or troubled.
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time

Notice that in verse Don't be troubled or shaken in thinking that the day of Christ is at hand, verse 3 "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" He will not return for the church until there is "falling away first" and the man of perdition is revealed. Verse 6 says they knew these things and they knew who was withholding and Christ would be revealed in HIS time. Notice he didn't say in man's tinme or as man sees time but "IN HIS TIME". The Holy Spirit sure does correct error doesn't He. All of this is a correction of the error of Preterism and reveals exactly what the futurist say will happen, again thanks for showing us how to prove our position and how the Holy Spirit shows the error of the "Preterist".

 

Pertierists need to answer
When was the "Great Tribulation?" Cannot be AD 70, as even the Holocost of WW II MUCH closer to what will be happening in end days!

When did jesus Rapture away his Church? When were graves emptied out, and sains translated to heaven directly?

Who was man of Sin in past?

why did God allow Jews to reform their nation, IF no longer part of His plans?

 

I'm not sure about special, maybe, but it was just a typical liberal arts college experience. At the time it had a very good student Christian Ministry. How about your school?

 

Christ after the 1000 year reign and in the New Jerusalem, so when was this fulfilled and notice what He says:Revelation 22
King James Version (KJV)


Revelation 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Notice in verse 6 these things must shortly be done, so the New Jerusalem must be here since they are linked to your view of the things that must shortly be done and then He says He comes quickly again you say that would be connected with all the events of Revelation and they occured in 70 A.D. so the Sun and moon we see are Christ by that teaching. If all of Revelation is completed as you say then we must be in New Jerusalem.

 

Acts 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air (Grk - aer).

HankD​

 

So when the Bible states that God plan for isreal are unconditional, based upon HIs elective choice, than He decided to Lie to them?

That ALL of the promises made to them were undone?

Interesting that paul saw isreal/Jews as STILL part of the Plan of God, as he allowed them to reject Jesus so that we Gentiles could be "grafted in" but would One day restore them back in, and what glory that will be at that time!

Guess the "fantasy" believer would NOT be we dispy, by Apostle paul himself!

And who was that Man of Sin/Beast/false Prophet again back in AD 70?
Ones Satan had empowered to take over world systems of religion/economics/politics?
One Jesus slew at His second coming?

 

So by your logic then you agree that the 1000 years of Revelation is just that, 1000 actual years?

So, do you believe the Great Tribulation of which there will never be another is the events surounding AD70?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

No matter how one manipulates the record of the AD70 historical events they don't hold a candle to five year global war of WWII.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

He was taken up bodily, He shall come again in like manner and every eye will see Him, the same Jesus who was taken up bodily and not Titus.

Already covered that aer is used of the lower density atmospheric air, Liddell-scott, Friberg, Kittel.

Acts 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air.​

HankD

 

And you say that "short" and its derivatives means an undisclosed "short" amount of time (at the time of the writing) but 1000 years in Revelation Chapter 20 somehow is 40 years by the preterist schema of reckoning.

Clearly a double standard.

Here again is God's view of time:

2 Peter 3

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

Similar to the preterist of the interpretation of 2 Peter 3?

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men...​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.​

How is the fact that the earth is still here post AD70 with sin and death still reigning, undertakers still in business, prisons still open, wars still happening etc... ?

That is because we can't know the exact moment in time

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.​

And time as been previously shown is determinant upon God's shematic.

The key is called discernment.

As I have repeatedly said, every view has it's problems.
The truth lies in the ability to discern between the literal and the metaphor.

Obviously, one of the venues is wrong (Futurism vs Preterism).

Let the readers decide.

In your opinion.

And the fallacy (IMO) of the preterist position is clearly manifested in their denial of the visible and bodily return of Jesus Christ to the earth.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Acts 1
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.​

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.​

HankD​

 

Well considering the fact that God spoke to Daniel in 70 2weeks of of years, each week being intervals of 7 years for the week, then we see God dealing with man in His time not ours So 70 weeks for God in Dealing with Israel and the Messiahs coming would be 69 weeks or 483 years and Messiah would be cut off. We know that 69 weeks to us would be a little over 9 years, so we have God using time to accomplish His will His way not ours. So the 483 years represented Gods timing, isn't that amazing how God used it, but you insist God must deal with us based on man's time, when we clearly see it doesn't/

You say well Christ says the things which come quickly or soon deal with a short period of time and all prophecy would be fulfilled. So you must then deal with this:
Revelation 22: 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

By your interpretation the first portion should be where we are in God's plan.
Which means the sun and moon are Christ because verse 5 states there is no night nor need for candle and we don't need the sun for Christ has become all that in the New Heaven and earth after His 1000 year Millenial reign. Notice right after verse 1 - 6 we have verse 7 behold I come quickly, by your interpretation all the things described in verse 1 -6 have occured and He came quickly and we are now living in New Jerusalem.
Yet everyone can see that these events have not occured and we aren't living in New Jerusalem on a New Earth with a New Heaven. Preterism has shown yet another falasy in it's teaching.

God's timing is not man's and God deals with us in His way withing His UNLIMITED Power and withing His will.

We futurist are waiting on the event of
Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

When the trumpet blows and the Bridegroom (Christ) comes for His Bride the Church, we have our oil full with the indwelling of the Spirit and are ready. The Preterist who have faith in Christ have that same Spirit indwelling them they too will be going even though they don't believe it will happen as Christ said and as Paul stated, doesn't change that it will happen.

With the preterism teaching we definitely see this verse being fulfilled:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:


We futurist can claim this crown:
2 Timothy 4: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

There is a poster at the PB who calls himself chaplianintraining, he also claims to be at student at DTS. An educated guess is that he is your roomie.

No matter, I intend to go the Westminster Philiadelphia and turn it dispy.

 

Agree with you that PRESENT nation isreal not in such a relationship with God BUT...

Ezeckiel prophecy of bones coming tio life WILL see a real fulfillment

In That DAY, when messaih returns and come unto the people that rejected Him at first coming...

They will be saved as a nation overnight, just as paul predicted

At that time, messiah rule from Jerusalem, all nations paying homage to jesus

jesus endured/suffered immensly, and His futrue return to set up His Kingdom and rule over all nations part of the promise inheritance His father would grant unto Him for enduring the shame and agony of the Cross!