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Not under the Law
- Thread starter freeatlast
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freeatlast
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freeatlast
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Answer;
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Spiritually we keep the Law, Physcially we sin.
Read Romans 6&7 carefully and you will see what Paul means when He says the Law is spiritual. You will see how he separates the flesh from the spirit. This separation is what I meant by it being spiritual. We agree with the Law spiritually but the flesh dwells in sin.
MB
I'm not JF but this a public forum so I'll answer:
You are "free" to break all of them that appeal to you to break.
You are free to eat a bowl of cesspool effluent, but do you want to?
A sheep has an appetite befitting his nature.
A hog has an appetite befitting his nature.
HankD
freeatlast
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freeatlast
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JesusFan I assume you have never been to the mission field. If you ever get the chance take it and go someplace where they have no bibles. Win someone to the Lord then don't tell them anything about living holy and see what happens. I can tell you nothing will happen. if they lied before they will still be liars. if they were fornicators before salvation they will still be fornicators. If they were thieves before they will still be thief's. That is why scripture says this.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Without the law we cannot know what the Lord expects of us even though we have the spirit. This is why the church is in such a bad way today. The law has been ignored and Pastors are not teaching it and the people live like the world. The law does not save nor has it ever, but the law does have need for today as it gives light to the saved as the Spirit uses it to convict.
A true believer will want to know what his Lord desires of Him. That is what the Spirit does to us. If the teachings of God (the commands) are not where he is the spirit will move him to where they are taught, but we must teach the things of God so as to know the right path to take.
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The last sentence is surrender and what it's all about. We know we are still sinful creatures Physcially. Spiritually we are in the righteousness of Christ.
Too many are still worried about the individual commandments. Forget about them, and Love God and your neighbor as your self and we will keep everything in the Law simply because of Love. Just focus on Loving and not the Law. This would make us the best witnesses we could ever hope to be.
We wouldn't have known sin if it hadn't been for the Law.
MB
freeatlast
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This is only partially true Mel. One thing that happened to me and presumably any new born child of God is that I lost my capacity to hate instantly.
The law teaches beyond a shadow of a doubt what we are - sinners -that is true and periodically the Spirit use the law to remind us from whence we were taken.
e.g. When I yield to lust, the still small voice of the Spirit reminds me "thou shalt not", if I don't acknowledge the lustful thought and get back following His leading and persist then sooner or later "whom the Lord loves He chastises" comes into play and indeed, I have gone to the woodshed on those occasions.
So yes, the law defines the boundaries but The Spirit rules over and guides me, not the boundaries.
Again, the church is in the bad way it is today because of legalism, an obsession with rules and laws, and yes even the flesh trying to keep the Ten Commandments.
We have a supernatural metamorphosis by which the flesh and its works are overcome:
2 Corinthians 3
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
We are transformed from the image of Adam to the image of Christ not by the law or the Ten Commandments but by beholding the glory of Jesus Christ in the inspired word through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
HankD
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freeatlast
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[SIZE=+0]If there is anything the church is not caught up in today it is legalism. That is not to say that there are no legalists, but the church as a whole is certainly not. Even the Revelation makes it clear that the church before Christ comes will be lukewarm and it certainly is that today. The falling away is in full force. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]While it is true that we are transformed by the The Lord and not the law the church has used the scripture against the scripture to justify its sin. Ignoring the teaching of what righteousness looks like by spelling out what is sin is not legalism. Not doing so is a flaw and has sent the church into what we see today.[/SIZE]
So back to the question what is meant to not be under the law? I can tell you it does not mean we are not to obey the commands nor are we to hide from mentioning them by calling those who do teach and do them legalists. There has to be the balance in the church which is lost today sending the church into Luke warmness.
No legalism? Then it appears you have not moved about in recent years.
The problem with legalism is that most folks don't recognize it and are unaware that they are caught up in it.
It is not just works but doctrinal legalism as well of which the ultimate outcome is strife and division.
What is lukewarmness? Mixing hot and cold together.
This outcome is because of the influence of the tares which have been sown among the wheat.
So yes, rules and regulations are forthcoming to "compensate" and indeed they are necessary to keep them in check. But rules are not the ultimate answer but "painting of the hives" (and yes, what else can a pastor do?).
No one needs to tell any child of God who is indwelt by the Spirit what sin is. The fact that an individual needs to be told indicates something is wrong with the heart.
No one needs to tell any child of God that 24/7 fellowship with God is the norm and not the exception.
I will agree that by and large the church has fallen asleep and slumbers.
My point which is different than yours - Sin is the symptom not the cause... rules, regulations, obsessing with commandment keeping only deals with the symptom.
The Spirit has been quenched in bringing forth His primary fruit.
Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
The consequence - strife and division and evil works in the church at large. This dims the light of Christ flowing through us.
Matthew 5
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
The light of Christ is hidden under the basket of strife and division.
Contending for the faith is one thing and is required, strife and division another and a work of the flesh.
Thankfully, I left that and churches of that ilk behind several years ago.
Thankfully, I left that and churches of that ilk behind several years ago.
So take the last word if you wish brother Mel, I'll bow out unless you ask a direct question.
Thank you for contending your position(s) without being contentious.
I don't think we are very far apart on this current issue.
HankD