was The Primary reason For The Cross The Love Of God, or His Holiness/Glory?

[quantumfaith]

It does not matter if you disagree. Scripture is clear. Calvary exists to SHOW God's love.

God quickens sinners that in the ages to come he might show forth the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

The highest good in the universe is the glory of God.

To have as a primary motive anything above that is sin.

For God to be motivated primarily by anything else than his own glory is for God to become an idolater and worship something other than himself.

God must put worth where it rightfully goes.

Even God cannot make something of higher worth than himself and his glory.

If God did Calvary PRIMARILY because of his love for man then God counted man of greater worth than his own glory. This would be sin.

God cannot have INORDINATE affection and to love man above his own glory is just that.

EVERYTHING in the universe exists primarily for the glory of God.

Understanding this is essential to having a biblical and God-centered theology.

I think You are incorrect. A complete and perfect God (that WE worship) is lacking in nothing. I almost get the sense that you read the Love/Glory thing thing as "either/or" (linguistic usage). I read it as a mathematical "or". The highest glory is God himself, the fact (my opinion) that He is "primarily" motivated by Love in NO WAY makes Him out to be an idolater, that is YOUR opinion. (and I think it is a wrong one).

 

[Luke2427]

I think You are incorrect. A complete and perfect God (that WE worship) is lacking in nothing. I almost get the sense that you read the Love/Glory thing thing as "either/or" (linguistic usage). I read it as a mathematical "or". The highest glory is God himself, the fact (my opinion) that He is "primarily" motivated by Love in NO WAY makes Him out to be an idolater, that is YOUR opinion. (and I think it is a wrong one).

You ignored my whole argument and did not address it.

The only thing you said that had anything to do with my argument I'll address here.

God is motivated to do what he does by something.

Just as all men are motivated to do what they do by something. For some men in some instances what motivates them is appetite, etc, etc, etc...

But there is only one GOOD primary motive for anything to be done by man- that is the glory of God. This is why NOTHING an unregenerate sinner does is good. He does NOTHING primarily for God so everything he does is sin. Of course the Bible confirms this repeatedly.

God's motive for doing what he does must be right. The RIGHT motive is for his own glory.

So God, seeking to honor himself had his Son build the universe and then enter it and die for a multitude which no man can number of every tribe and kindred and nation and tongue. That multitude will praise him forever and bring him honor forever.

In fact, when it is all said and done and time is no more and the dust clears- this whole thing is going to wrap up with every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

No God centered theology can deny this.

 

[psalms109:31]

Glory

God is motivated by who He is. To be humble and to receive glory you can't keep it to your self, this is why there is what I call a triangle of glory; That we lift up Jesus and glorify Him, Jesus glorifies the Father, then the Father glorifies the Holy Spirit that is in us and lifts us up and we glorify the Son and the Son glorifies the Father and the Father glorifies the Holy Spirit that is in us, it a circle that never ends. The Father is on top of the triangle.

The primary reason is what all God is without lifted up one of His attributes higher than another.

 

[quantumfaith]

You ignored my whole argument and did not address it.

The only thing you said that had anything to do with my argument I'll address here.

God is motivated to do what he does by something.

Just as all men are motivated to do what they do by something. For some men in some instances what motivates them is appetite, etc, etc, etc...

But there is only one GOOD primary motive for anything to be done by man- that is the glory of God. This is why NOTHING an unregenerate sinner does is good. He does NOTHING primarily for God so everything he does is sin. Of course the Bible confirms this repeatedly.

God's motive for doing what he does must be right. The RIGHT motive is for his own glory.

So God, seeking to honor himself had his Son build the universe and then enter it and die for a multitude which no man can number of every tribe and kindred and nation and tongue. That multitude will praise him forever and bring him honor forever.

In fact, when it is all said and done and time is no more and the dust clears- this whole thing is going to wrap up with every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

No God centered theology can deny this.

No I did NOT ignore you, YOU say God is motivated primarily by and for His Glory, I say He is motivated primarily by His love. Please be accurate, even if you disagree with my positions.

I say God built the universe through His Son out of love, created mankind out of love, (Not a NEED to be glorified) endowed him with His image in order to fellowship with Him. Furthermore, I propose God receives Glory from His creation irrespective of what we do or do not do. Perhaps more glory is "given" when we willfully give our hearts and lives to Him and respond in Love to the Love he first demonstrated to us.

I emphatically reiterate, the position (mine) that God is primarily motivated by LOVE in no uncertain terms, does NOT make God an idolater and I find it "offensive" (could think of no other word) to suggest such.

For the record, I completely agree with your last statement about the "dust settling".

 

[Luke2427]

No I did NOT ignore you, YOU say God is motivated primarily by and for His Glory, I say He is motivated primarily by His love. Please be accurate, even if you disagree with my positions.

I say God built the universe through His Son out of love, created mankind out of love, (Not a NEED to be glorified) endowed him with His image in order to fellowship with Him. Furthermore, I propose God receives Glory from His creation irrespective of what we do or do not do. Perhaps more glory is "given" when we willfully give our hearts and lives to Him and respond in Love to the Love he first demonstrated to us.

I emphatically reiterate, the position (mine) that God is primarily motivated by LOVE in no uncertain terms, does NOT make God an idolater and I find it "offensive" (could think of no other word) to suggest such.

For the record, I completely agree with your last statement about the "dust settling".

You did it again.

I made several arguments and you barely cursorily addressed a single one of them.

 

[Dr. Bob]

What a sad concept.

God created all this, including all the suffering and pain, just so He could get glory? I don't see how this could be consistent with the message of God's love toward His creation, reveled in the bible.

Your small view of God is what is sad. Hoping you just missed the point of my comments and don't really believe the way it comes across. God's GRACE is what is praised and glorified. Period.

BTW, you probably read Gen 1 and when God is done with all of creation, He is pleased. It is very good. It is MAN and his SIN that brings suffering and pain. God's GRACE (there's that pesky word again) receives glory and praise for lifting you and me OUT of the hopeless mess we are in.

Another BTW, there was a man born blind. What a tragic event. Did God get glory from that? Jesus' disciples, like most religionists?pharisees, had a concept that either there was sin in the line that caused it, or that this man was a great sinner and so deserved it.

Jesus carefully laid out the fact that all those years of horrible blindness were to glorify God's GRACE.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

~For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

~In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

~In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

~He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

~In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

~And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

 

[Luke2427]

Your small view of God is what is sad. Hoping you just missed the point of my comments and don't really believe the way it comes across. God's GRACE is what is praised and glorified. Period.

BTW, you probably read Gen 1 and when God is done with all of creation, He is pleased. It is very good. It is MAN and his SIN that brings suffering and pain. God's GRACE (there's that pesky word again) receives glory and praise for lifting you and me OUT of the hopeless mess we are in.

Another BTW, there was a man born blind. What a tragic event. Did God get glory from that? Jesus' disciples, like most religionists?pharisees, had a concept that either there was sin in the line that caused it, or that this man was a great sinner and so deserved it.

Jesus carefully laid out the fact that all those years of horrible blindness were to glorify God's GRACE.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

~For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

~In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

~In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

~He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

~In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

~And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Don]

Luke, a question: Does God love His creation? (specifically, man)

As Dr. Bob pointed out in one of his references: ~In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

This reference notes two motivations: Love and praise.

Is it not correct to say that God saved His creation, the creation that He loved, by the sacrifice on Calvary? In order that that creation might praise His glorious grace?