“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

Yet more...

2 Chr 31:20 And thus did Hezekiah throughout all Judah, and wrought that which was good and right and truth before the LORD his God.
21 And in every work that he began in the service of the house of God, and in the law, and in the commandments, to seek his God, he did it with all his heart, and prospered.

King Hezekiah was able to do that which was good and right and truth. He sought God with all his heart.

You will be surprised how many men sought the Lord in the scriptures if you seek.

 

Correct, he draws all men.

 

Yes you are correct again....and a correct assumption it was.

 

Preacher4truth...

You posted (bolding mine)...

Of course we understand that. We can never keep the law. The Law is the instrument of condemnation that drives us to Christ.

At that point, Christ says to those who know that they are condemned...

At that point men have a free will choice to make

1) Take Christ up on His offer, recieve eternal life as a free gift, and the Holy Spirit as our comforter in this life.

2) Make the free will choice to reject the offer of eternal life.

Regarding the comment I bolded...

...the scriptures are absolutely OVERFLOWING with evidence that ALL men recieve Light (the opportunity to be saved) and all men can seek God and choose to recieve His offer of eternal life.

 

No sooner than I post on here, an OP centered upon my beliefs, the attack from the same old folks commenced.

The funny thing is that all of this objective is transparent.

The same crew, quantumfaith, winman, DHK, benjamin, and others come out, almost immediately after I post to find some fault in what I've said, to twist somehow to this "so what you're saying is..." putting words in my mouth relentlessly in hopes something will stick. This is truly shameful behavior.

Whatever I say I say plainly, no holds barred, no need to try and interpret it like a parable.

I said what I believe in defense of my faith and the Gospel. There was not one thing inflammatory in what I gave in defense of an OP concerning me personally, in defending I believe man can do nothing apart from God, and that we cannot seek nor keep one thing God commands lest He help us do so.

Go ahead and attack some more. I have been Christian and gracious here. This will be my last comment on an OP "set up" for me, with a clear objective.

- Grace and Peace to all that are His

 

Alright, I will revise my statement. Your statements were specifically directed to Benjamin, as your entire post was. Here is what you said to Benjamin:

1. Does Benjamin believe in a "man can" based theology? Why even bring it up then? Why the inference?


2. Does Benjamin believe that he must fulfill the law, or does he not believe that Christ fulfilled all the law? Why are suggesting that he doesn't believe that Christ kept the Law, and that "Benjamin and his crew thinks he can."

--You have used personal pronouns directed at Benjamin and his crew.
Who are "his crew," and why are you attacking Benjamin?
Do you know for sure these are Benjamin's beliefs? If they are not you need to retract them.

 

The only thing I have said is that the scriptures have many examples of men who sought God and therefore your interpretation of Romans 3 cannot be correct.

Now, I would argue that when the scriptures say no man doeth good or seeks God it is speaking of doing good 100% of the time and seeking God 100% of the time. If this is the criteria, then yes, no man does good or seeks God.

Where you misunderstand me is that when I say man is capable of doing good, you misrepresent me as saying man can earn salvation. I believe no such thing. I believe all men have sinned and come short of the glory of God. My disagreement is with Total Inability, not salvation through grace. I believe man can do SOME good, and I have shown scripture today that says that. The scriptures say both king Jehoshaphat and king Asa did good things and sought God.

Man can do good, although no man except Jesus did 100% good. To earn heaven you would have to be perfectly righteous, never sinning once. This is true, no man but Jesus has ever done 100% good.

Calvinism goes to the extreme and says unregenerate man can do no good. This is easily proved false, unregenerate man can tell the truth and often do. Telling the truth is not a sin, to say otherwise is absolute nonsense and makes God's commands meaningless and nonsensical. If everything the unregenerate man does is sin, then the law would not have been necessary as our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. God could have simply said we are sinners regardless of what we do. But that is not what God says. God says to bear false witness is sin, but to tell the truth is good.

Man was not so disabled in the fall that he cannot do good. He can still tell the truth at times. He can be honest at times. And man can believe when he is presented with the gospel.

But no amount of good works can save any man. Even if you were to be good all your life and only sin one single time, that single sin must be paid for, and the wages of sin is death.

It is like our law. You could be an honest citizen all your life, but one day go in and rob a bank. Could you argue to the judge that you have been an honest citizen all your life and have only broken the law this one time and should therefore be found not guilty? Of course not, that is ridiculous. If you robbed the bank and the jury found you guilty, you are a convicted "bank robber" and must pay the penalty of the law. We are not on some sort of scale that balances our good works against our sins.

This is how God's law works as well. If you sin even once, that sin must be paid for and the penalty is death, separation from God forever.

So, I have never argued man can earn salvation, I simply disagree with Total Inability that man is unable to do any good thing. And this thread is more evidence of what I contend, there are many examples of men doing both good and seeking God in the scriptures. Don't take my word for it, look in your own Bible and see if I have misquoted any of the verses I have submitted.

 

True.

But everyone....is....drawn.

Not all at the same time of course, but revelatory "Light" is given to....

And in the same way that everyone has opportunity, everyone has a chance to be wise and choose Christ. God is....

...in the sense of "I choose Bob Smith, but I do not choose Steve Jones over there.

...as Calvinism teaches.

AiC

 

That's not in the Bible. The "no respecter of persons" is about judgement. God will judge all men the same, not matter who they are.

Taking "not respecter of persons" out of context can be dangerous.

Example: All will go to heaven. God wouldn't send some to hell and some to heaven because he is no respecter of persons.

And of course, I believe in unconditional election. Conditional election is a lot closer to being a "respecter of persons."

 

Romans 3:11 doesn't tell of man's inability to seek, but rather, his unwillingness.

 

I disagree, when James said God is no respecter of persons it was said of God not preferring rich people over poor. When Peter said this, he was saying God does not prefer the Jews over the Gentiles.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

This has nothing to do with judgment, in fact, Peter is speaking of who is "accepted" by God. He was saying it does not matter what group or people you are from, what matters to God is who fears him and works righteousness. And I would think the word "accepted" equivalent to meaning "chosen". A person who fears God is someone who has faith, someone who truly believes in God.

 

Jbh28....

You said...

Well, here is the passage...

Thats referring to showing partiality..and that God will not arbitrarilly choose some and not others. That supports what I am saying wonderfully

I dont see any of these passages disturbing my position at all.

 

Exactly what I was saying. God judges us not based on us being poor or rich, or being a Jew or Gentile.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

This has nothing to do with judgment, in fact, Peter is speaking of who is "accepted" by God. He was saying it does not matter what group or people you are from, what matters to God is who fears him and works righteousness. And I would think the word "accepted" equivalent to meaning "chosen". A person who fears God is someone who has faith, someone who truly believes in God.[/QUOTE]This one is that God will look who has faith and who doesn't. My point still stands that "no respecter of persons" doesn't negate election.

 

I don't believe, nor does any Calvinist, that God "arbitrarilly[sic]" chooses some and not others.

I wasn't saying anything about your position. I was answering you argument about "respecter of persons" vs election.

 

He's unable because he's unwilling. When we say "unable" we don't mean that someone else is keeping him from coming, but that the person's own will is keeping him from coming.

 

That seems out of place. Unable and unwilling have two different meanings. Perhaps I am missing something here and you can explain further.

 

This one is that God will look who has faith and who doesn't. My point still stands that "no respecter of persons" doesn't negate election.[/QUOTE]

I disagree again, Peter's language is clear and simple, those who fear God and work righteousness are those who are accepted with God. This shows the fearing God and working righteousness as the cause, the being accepted with God as the effect.

 

jbh28,

What does the Calvinist say is the basis for God electing some but not others?

 

Oh baloney, get the sequence right, Nick was attracted to Christ because of the Spirit that was already in him:

v 21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Remember, Christ was addressing Nick with these words.