“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

[DHK]

Oh baloney, get the sequence right, Nick was attracted to Christ because of the Spirit that was already in him:

v 21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Remember, Christ was addressing Nick with these words.

It was instruction. That doesn't mean Nick was doing them. He was still a member of the Sanhedrin, the body that condemned and crucified Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

That's not in the Bible. The "no respecter of persons" is about judgement. God will judge all men the same, not matter who they are.

Taking "not respecter of persons" out of context can be dangerous.

Example: All will go to heaven. God wouldn't send some to hell and some to heaven because he is no respecter of persons.

And of course, I believe in unconditional election. Conditional election is a lot closer to being a "respecter of persons."

jbh,
the context does not matter....aic just wants to repost the falsehood of this supposed special light given to everyman...without exception...then claim calvinism is wrong..
he posts the same post over and over, no matter what you say.

jbh....you are an arminianphobe:thumbs:

 

[Benjamin]

Great posts Benjamin. Will take me just a bit to digest better, I do appreciate you sharing.

Thank you, and you are welcome.

I am convinced that man was created (engineered) to have fellowship with God. I see it as a natural almost genetic function designed into us, to seek the divine. Obviously, the fall affected this function, hence from the ages of old mankind seeks in many cases false gods and even more so man invents them in many cases to satisfy what He desires God to be. But the essence to seek the divine is (in my opinion) a natural built in function from God himself.

You might note that I have put a lot of thought into trying to understand the Divine functional design of creation and fellowship, the purpose of creaturely volition, and the nature of both, God and man.

 

[quantumfaith]

Oh baloney, get the sequence right, Nick was attracted to Christ because of the Spirit that was already in him:

v 21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Remember, Christ was addressing Nick with these words.

kyredneck,

Could you please explain how this citation of vs. 21 has anything to do with the "sequence" to which you refer? I am not getting it.

 

[quantumfaith]

jbh,
the context does not matter....aic just wants to repost the falsehood of this supposed special light given to everyman...without exception...then claim calvinism is wrong..
he posts the same post over and over, no matter what you say.

jbh....you are an arminianphobe:thumbs:

And so, the revelation of God, in whatever manner, is not intended to be available to all men?

 

[Iconoclast]

And so, the revelation of God, in whatever manner, is not intended to be available to all men?

Quantum,
Natural revelation as in psalm 19,,,,,along with a God given conscience is available to all men...yet there is not enough in that to save.
AIC says that God will give everyman "special" revelation..even though the bible says that is not so.

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum,
Natural revelation as in psalm 19,,,,,along with a God given conscience is available to all men...yet there is not enough in that to save.
AIC says that God will give everyman "special" revelation..even though the bible says that is not so.

Thus "special" revelation is reserved only for certain souls?

 

[Winman]

Quantum,
Natural revelation as in psalm 19,,,,,along with a God given conscience is available to all men...yet there is not enough in that to save.
AIC says that God will give everyman "special" revelation..even though the bible says that is not so.

Actually, the scriptures say that the grace "that bringeth salvation" has appeared to all men.

Tit 2:11 For the grace that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

How can this grace not be sufficient?

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum,
Natural revelation as in psalm 19,,,,,along with a God given conscience is available to all men...yet there is not enough in that to save.
AIC says that God will give everyman "special" revelation..even though the bible says that is not so.

What was God's purpose in the election of Israel?

 

[Iconoclast]

Thus "special" revelation is reserved only for certain souls?

Quantum, There are many verses that address this;

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Not everyone gets saving truth,and those who hear it cannot believe unless God enables them to.

 

[Winman]

Quantum, There are many verses that address this;
[/B]

Not everyone gets saving truth,and those who hear it cannot believe unless God enables them to.

Those verses do not say these people are unable, it says their heart is waxed gross, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have CLOSED THEIR EYES. It was not that they were unable, it was they were unwilling to hear and learn.

And Jesus confirms that men do seek God, he said men desired to hear and see what the disciples heard and saw.

Futher, the disciples had as much difficulty as other men understanding Jesus's parables, the difference being that they sought Jesus afterward that he would explain the parables to them.

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, There are many verses that address this;
[/B]





Not everyone gets saving truth,and those who hear it cannot believe unless God enables them to.

Who is "them" in vs. 11? Never mind, I picked up on "the people".

Could it not be that Jesus is speaking of granting a greater measure of revelation to those called to have this special role of being the first disciples of Christ?

 

[Iconoclast]

You are missing verse11.....to them it is not given....

special revelation has to be given

the ability or lack of ability is another question

 

[quantumfaith]

Those verses do not say these people are unable, it says their heart is waxed gross, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have CLOSED THEIR EYES. It was not that they were unable, it was they were unwilling to hear and learn.

And Jesus confirms that men do seek God, he said men desired to hear and see what the disciples heard and saw.

Futher, the disciples had as much difficulty as other men understanding Jesus's parables, the difference being that they sought Jesus afterward that he would explain the parables to them.

Great point Winman. Seems as though the "people" spoken of here had closed their hearts and minds to God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Who is "them" in vs. 11? Never mind, I picked up on "the people".

Could it not be that Jesus is speaking of granting a greater measure of revelation to those called to have this special role of being the first disciples of Christ?

well of course the apostles were given more than us, but again...special revelation is revealed by the Spirit.

nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The unsaved do not have the Spirit in them ,for God to reveal it to them.

 

[quantumfaith]

well of course the apostles were given more than us, but again...special revelation is revealed by the Spirit.

The unsaved do not have the Spirit in them ,for God to reveal it to them.

I wasn't speaking of "us" rather of the people addressed by Jesus in response to the disciples question.

 

[Iconoclast]

Great point Winman. Seems as though the "people" spoken of here had closed their hearts and minds to God.

not really,,,,you presuppose that they were at one time open to God...

this is where winman goes sometime.....Jesus did not teach here or anywhere that men seek God on their own as you twist this to say,

I cannot read it for you

 

[Winman]

Great point Winman. Seems as though the "people" spoken of here had closed their hearts and minds to God.

Yes, and Jesus further explained that those that hath (faith) shall more be given, but to those that hath not (faith) even that which is given them shall be taken away.

This is best explained in the parable of the talents where a man gave one servant five talents who earned five more. He gave another servant two talents who earned two more. He gave the third servant one talent. This servant was afraid (no faith) and hid his talent in the earth. When the lord returned he was angry with this unprofitable servant and cast him into outer darkness, and gave his talent to the servant who had ten talents. (Mat 25:14-30)

This shows God gives grace to all men. The unprofitable servant received a talent like the rest, but he feared and had no faith, therefore the lord took from him what was given him and gave to the faithful servant who earned five more talents.

Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

If a man will diligently hear, seek, and learn of God, more will be given him. But to those who refuse to hear or are indifferent, even that which is given him shall be taken away.

 

[jbh28]

That seems out of place. Unable and unwilling have two different meanings. Perhaps I am missing something here and you can explain further.

You are unable to come because you are unwilling to come. Unable means you don't have the ability and something is keeping your from that. In this case, it's your will that's keeping you. So in that sense, you are unable.

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes, and Jesus further explained that those that hath (faith) shall more be given, but to those that hath not (faith) even that which is given them shall be taken away.

This is best explained in the parable of the talents where a man gave one servant five talents who earned five more. He gave another servant two talents who earned two more. He gave the third servant one talent. This servant was afraid (no faith) and hid his talent in the earth. When the lord returned he was angry with this unprofitable servant and cast him into outer darkness, and gave his talent to the servant who had ten talents. (Mat 25:14-30)

This shows God gives grace to all men. The unprofitable servant received a talent like the rest, but he feared and had no faith, therefore the lord took from him what was given him and gave to the faithful servant who earned five more talents.

Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

If a man will diligently hear, seek, and learn of God, more will be given him. But to those who refuse to hear or are indifferent, even that which is given him shall be taken away.

I am convinced that all men are granted whatever is necessary to choose and seek after God. I am also trying to understand why my colleagues on the other side of the aisle say that this is limited.