Can a man keep the law?

I guess one my points is that even when unregenerate man does obey God his motives are impure.

Second, concerning Zacharias, though he was "blameless" it was later found out that he had a spiritual problem and was chastised (we've all been there).

Third keeping all the commandments include the maintenance commandments of sacrifices.

i.e. Possibly Zacharias brought a sin offering after his tongue was loosed and re-established his "blameless" status.

Thanks
HankD

 

I can only answer for myself. No.

I have had to visit the woodshed with my Father for my rebellion more times than I care to tell.

HankD

 

This warning was given to protect the disciples from those who were "tempting God".

Acts 15
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

You need to be more definitive about "commandments".

Is 1 John 5:3 directing us to keep the 613 commandments of the mosiac law?


HankD

 

What are the 613 commandments?

 

It's simply amazing "one" cannot see what is going on here. To the few who do, blessings to you.

Even a cursory look at winmans posts, not just here in this thread, but go look at the many here at BB from him and it is man, and man-centric posts, mans ability, mans goodness, defending man.

And then keep looking at them, and notice the demeanor concerning God. Go look, ponder this. Look at the omnis under attack. Look at Almighty God "not knowing" all things. Note Jesus never said He didn't know. Watch and see how passages are misrepresented, misinterpreted, to support this error, and notice the several who come in as cheerleaders to thumb up this fallacious doctrine.

Then notice also their posts. Man centered. Take notice. Man presented falsely as capable and able using misunderstood passages, and see the attitude against God's indictment upon mankind in Romans 3 from this same group, and how they fight against this. Ask yourselves who are they fighting for folks? I'll tell you: man. Was this what Peter preached at Pentecost? Mans ability? Or was it mans lostness and wickedness and wretchedness against Holy Almighty God and that our sins nailed him to the tree? Answer for yourselves.

Why so many proof-texts used to show how very capable man is, exalting this? Look at proof-texts used to distort the fixed dogmas of Almighty God. Why was there an argument to disprove the truth that concerning salvation, man cannot do any good, and set one upon a path with an misunderstood passage of Cornelius in Acts to show it is error to believe we cannot do good concerning salvation? Because of one reason; defense and exaltation of man and mans ability.

All you have to do is look for yourselves. To me it's contemptible and ignominious, and to the untrained eye this looks like light and truth, but it is not the truth, and those who stand against this are attacked but sobeit.

Keep the faith and the truth brothers, and stay in the Word and accept any repercussions as doing His will and be thankful to Him for it.

- Peace and Grace to His

 

First, God does not need your defense. He is UTTERLY capable, all on His own. Now, if a man has the right to choose, and if one goes as far as Rob Bell and others and says that man's choice even includes the right to choose or not choose hell, then God may indeed need man's defense, but you are not arguing that (or at least, I hope you are not, for then you would truly be heretical in your doctrines and in need of salvation!).

Second, I am not sure who here or elsewhere "blame him for being sinners." If by that, you mean that those who hold the fact that we are born dead in our sin and trespasses is God's fault, and that He willed us that way, then you have mistaken both the argument and the solution. We are culpable for our own sin, both by choice and by birth. That is what the Bible says, and that has been shared here countless times. Our ability or lack thereof to not be sinners does not stop the fact that we are born in sin, nothing stops that fact, but God still holds us responsible!

Third, one might then suggest that if God allows us to be born dead in our sins that God has allowed something that is un-reconcilable and even "unfair." The unfair part is not true, for there really is no such thing as "fair." Fair to whom? Us, or God? We have transgressed God's law. We have failed to meet God's standards. We have hearts that rebel against God. We miss the mark, our aim is off, and even when we miss the mark, we change the location of the target so as to make it appear that we have yet hit God's target by creating human-centered laws that are not God's laws. Such was the practice of Israel, and God judged them for it, such is our practice and we suffer the same judgment, "The wages of sin is death." God made one particular "law" that states very simply, the one who sins, dies." That law is not part of the 10 commandments. It was given to Adam, and through Adam, passed on to the entire human race. When "one man" sinned, sin was passed on to the entire human race through that "one man." So says the Scriptures. That "law" is written large on the entirety of God's Word, and the only remedy for that "law" is Jesus Christ, who imputes His righteousness onto us while in turn taking from us our sin. Fair to whom? Seems that God paid it all!

Finally, we are ALL sinners, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar -- so says the Word of God plainly. No "fair" about it, God simply causes the facts of the matter to be stated! Is it then un-reconcilable that we are sinners even if we do not chose to be sinners? Yes, save one thing. That WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS CHRIST DIED FOR US. That too is what the Scriptures say. Our sin is un-reconcilable by human efforts, but we are reconciled by God through Christ. THAT is the gospel and that is the good news!

You have tried again and again to get the rest of us to see the truth of your man-centered efforts through careful manipulation of the texts of Scripture, all the while missing the very points that you skip over in your effort. I heartily suggest that you return to those Scriptures and read plainly about the effects of man's sin on both himself, his world, and yes, on God, who had to come to pay it all on our behalf.

 

http://www.aish.com/h/sh/se/48945081.html

HankD

 

The problem is those are not the commands of God for the NT. Those are the what the Jews have come up with as commands. I have a Mishnah and understand the extremes that the Jew went to, but those are not considered the commands under the NT. In fact one could say they are not the commands of the OT either as they can all be summed up with numbr 4. We are NT. We are to obey the commands of the NT, not all the things the Jews came up with. In fact if you look over the list it is clear that many of them are duplicated. So we are to keep the comandments of the Lord.

So let me ask you a question. Do you believe, reject or put some spin on these words of Jesus?

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

My, I am utterly shocked... :laugh:

Will you recant and change your theology if I do? Or will you find some way to work around, or re-interpret plain Scripture?

 

Well then, I must love Him and keep His commandments because He has manifested Himself to me.

Go back to the O/P and you will see that winman used an illustration that was from an OT law keeping venue.

I just wanted you to make that distinction.

Thanks
HankD

 

My bet is on the latter. There has to be a proof-text somewhere to refute plain dogma!

:laugh: :wavey:

 

Positionally, these two were blameless, as is and has been the case of all His redeemed by the blood, born from above, Saints down through the ages.

Even after all they had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (murmuring, idolatry, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to say:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21

Yeah:

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8

But practically, no one is capable of maintaining a lifelong, unbroken, obedience to the law. No one. Positionally, yes, but that's only due to God's faithfulness and not our ability.

IMO, there's been some excellent responses to the OP, but I like Hank's angle here:

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, So Jehovah pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust. Ps 103

Winman, if you were under the Old Covenant 3000 years ago, you may well have been able to keep the whole law, for a little while. But I guarantee you would eventually find it to be exactly as James described it, “a yoke...which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear”.

 

...and on another note but same page, within the Sermon on the Mount is an exposition of the law given by the Author of the law to the recipients of the law showing the spirituality of the law; it wasn't if one had actually done the deed, if one had lusted after it one was guilty of it!

Thank God for His faithfulness!

 

Think if we were to become that legalistic that we threw people in jail for just having Evil thoughts.....I for one would have a great prison career!

 

Eccl 3:11 (NASB) 11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

 

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

 

Just read the first 3 chapters in Romans, where Apostle paul pretty much shows us that :

man is a sinner by birth/choice
man will fall away from God, not towards Him due to being in sin
God is the One that saves man