If election is unconditional why would it be more difficult for the rich to be saved?

Note the catch phrase of the OP that you so obviously missed qaf:

It's not more difficult. That right there is the faulty notion skan has garnered, but he didn't get it from a complete and efficient analysis of the text.

The premise is that it is more difficult for some (the rich) to be saved. The text doesn't say this anywhere, nor does it suggest it. Thus, his is a false premise and is not even close to the context and point of the passage.

It (this false premise) is being used to disprove a premise of Calvinism, and does not even interpret the whole point of the passage correctly, which is crystal clear: God alone saves.

If you want to believe it says (Matthew 19) it's more difficult for the rich to be saved, go for it. You will also erroneously miss the point, and misinterpret the passage as well.

It isn't more difficult for any to be saved. Why? It is God who saves, not man.

 

I've already thoroughly given you the point, no need to pretend it wasn't answered. It's right in the text.

Your premise is incorrect. It is not more difficult for the rich to be saved than anyone else. Nothing in the text says it is more difficult, now does it?

Why though? God alone saves. Actually, the passage that you assumed handily dismantles Calvinist belief, instead, bolsters it.

With man it is impossible, but with God______? Get the point yet? It's all of God.

(Note when He said "with man" He didn't only implicate the rich then maybe you'll get the point, as they asked "Who then can be saved?")

You've been answered concisely. Post #56 and this post do that.

 

Cathc phrase, main point, to disprove Calvinist belief.

You failed in your effort. Your passage as do Scriptures bolster Calvinist belief.

I've already given you the efficient analysis. Actually, Jesus gave you the answer in the context to His disciples.

But this is you, you want to get a few pages away from the answer.

 

One last time: It is not more difficult for one person, rich, poor, or otherwise to be saved than any other person.

Why? It is God that saves.

 

Amazing! You ask P4T to explain this scripture he denies in practice, and he disappears. Maybe he is seeking advice from other Calvinists as how to evade yet another scripture.

 

how is this helpful to the discussion? Just a personal attack. People have lives outside of the Baptist board.

 

Ah,yes Robert...I think it was you that one time posted 40 years in a baptist church and you never heard about calvinism

That is strange. Do you have a web-site for the church.Must be some real enlightning sermons taking place there!:thumbs:

 

I know you addressed the question to P4T, but I'd like to answer.

Why did Jesus say what He said about how hard it is for the rich to get into heaven? I believe P4T has done a very good job in explaining the passage in context. Jesus is teaching that God alone saves.


Why would Jesus teach that to His disciples? Jesus is dispelling the notion that was common (then and now) that the "rich" are receiving God's blessings and, therefore, must be saved. That is clear%2

 

Yes, people have lives outside of BB, but P4T has over 2,600 posts in 8 months. That's a lot of posts. It's possible that he's not in front of his computer but his computer is logged onto BB right now as I type (8:50 pm) and Who's Online says he's searching the forum.

 

Thank you. In that is why I say the OP is poorly written, and is a false premise altogether.

Again, the text at hand actually supports Calvinistic thought, and dismantles his notion completely.

I am though amazed that his cheerleaders would rather fight over non-issues like "demanding" an answer from me (along another rabbit trail created by skan to avoid how I clearly show him in error), skipping the truth and main point of Jesus, rather than looking at the text and see the truth of it in itself. Such is our day.

It is not "more difficult" as it is nowhere even mentioned. I believe the disciples got the point, God alone saves, not that it is more difficult for the rich to enter.

I've, rather Gods Word has proven skan to be in error with his assumption from the text. That's my main point, and good enough for me to leave the other strawmen and rabbit trails alone.

- Peace and Grace

 

wow, that's more than me and I've been here since 2008!

 

canadyjd,

This is actually a credible and valid perspective on this scripture, although as I read the surrounding context I do not see any reason why this MUST be the perspective intended by Jesus. He emphasizes the difficulty in "entering the kingdom of heaven with the statement.....

"Children, how hard it is to enter the Kingdom of God!"

 

...and that's after a January to summer hiatus!

 

Are you making the claim that we can know EVERYTHING about God?

 

You beat me to it. canadyjd gives a good explanation. But along with context as you mentioned there is also other instances where upper class people were corrected. In other words, the disciples would have already heard that the rich are not necessarily blessed by God and had some sort of an advantage in getting into Heaven. In fact, the Sadducees were wealthy Jews and they didn't even believe in the resurrection. So it would be very hard indeed for them to enter in!

 

<sigh> Another time-tested technique of deflecting the subject matter at hand down another alley.

I will contend that there are many things that Calvinists claim is a mystery, or is unknowable, is in fact explainable. Don't bother asking me to elaborate because I'm not playing this game.