Then you are saying that the HS doesnt have sovereignty & your introducing human desires into Gods abilities....IE Quenching the Spirit.
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our baptist Church Now officially belives Sign Gifts still operate!
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Then you are saying that the HS doesnt have sovereignty & your introducing human desires into Gods abilities....IE Quenching the Spirit.
just applying the biblical principle that regardless if it is discussion on gifts, Sotierology, eschatology etc Christians should be able to engage in a "lively fashion" yet still keep/maintain the peace!
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Just wondering where the Biblical principle of believers who disagree about the areas you mentioned was stated. There are plenty of places where believers are to be in harmony. But I am not sure that you have a biblical principle about believers who disagree about eschatology, soteriology or gifts were told to live in peace with each other.
The one church who had disagreements was Corinth and Paul didn't allow for freedom, he told them they had to do it his way. In Galatia the disagreement was about the law and salvation, but Paul didn't say anything having unity in their disagreements. He condemned one side as being wrong.
Please don't get me wrong. In the larger Christian fellowship, there is a need for harmony among believers. I just don't see that happening in a local church setting where you might have dueling teachers.
God gives us the latitiude to decide just HOW to apply the Biblical practices, so we have decided to allow the Gifts to be in the Body but not used in Service, as we need to mature much more in learning what the Holy Spirit will decide to ultimatly do in this particular area in the body!
think that in areas of "disputable" docrines the Lord allows us the freedom to decide to not attend aad fellowship IF it is a deeply held conviction, but need to depart or stay in a "Christ like" fashion!
EWF...
God is sovereign all the time.The Spirit tells us in Jude 3
3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Once for all time delivered to the saints.The apostles were foundational
eph2:20.The word is now compleie.
EWf......WHAT special revelation did God not tell us? What sign gift do you think we are missing?
You cannot re-define sign gifts....so what new revelation are we being given?
Do you claim special revelation? I do not want to hear about any vague...well it could be happening....tell me exactly what you believe is happening.
You claim this without biblical warrant.What new revelation do you claim?
Revelatory gifts are not optional......like would you like milk,or half and half with your coffee.
If sign gifts were for all time, they would happen all the time,and it would be sinful to teach there were no sign gifts.
JF...what sign gifts do you think are in your church[besides the secret "prayer" language].......you know...the gibberish........rondo koko aballah komomoshiki ?etc.
If the Holy Spirit speaks...it is new revelation.....if it is just from the person,it is sanctified imagination. If you answer...be specific!
What biblical 'proof' do you have that those Gifts of the HS actually fully passed away?
Also, we take cue from the Apostle in Hebrews, who stated in Chatper 2 that the Apostles DID already confirmed the Gospel by signs and wonders, past tense verb, so the Hebrews guidelines would be to those after the Apostoloc Age!
So the "sign gifts" already at that time were transistioned to being no l;onger reevelatory in nature, but as to the local Body, with words of endification/encouragement/direction/wisdom etc from the HS to the believers!
Fine then the main conclusion stands -- that the question of gifts is entirely within the sovereignty of the Spirit & that because of that we should always be open, in mind and in heart, to anything the Spirit of God may choose to do in His sovereignty.
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For IF of the HS, than whatever is said and done will ALWAYS agree with written word, not add to, or subtract from it, and will be NOT revealing ANY new doctrines!
Haven't read the whole thread, but let me ask the question right back to you.
What proof can you present that the miraculous sign gifts have not passed away. If they have not passed away then there would be at least some evidence of their manifestation of God working through them today, but there isn't, and with the amount of high-tech technology that we have today we certainly would know about it if it was taking place.
Here are some examples:
The gift of healing:
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one. (Acts 5:16)
--Peter had the gift of healing.
He healed everyone that came to him. There were not a few--all that came from all the cities around Jerusalem and in Jerusalem itself. Throngs, crowds, he healed them all--paraplegics, MS patients, paralyzed people, those with obvious broken bones, the lame, blind, whatever disease they might have had--he healed them. And their healing was immediate. There was no process involved.
The parallel to that would be if a "faith healer" (someone claiming to have the same gift) would go into all the hospitals of one city and healing all the people in that city--all in the ER rooms, up and down the corridors: the palliative care, the psychiatric ward, the children's ward, geriatric's ward, intensive care, obstetrics, and all the other wards in the hospital. He would be able to heal all in the hospital with a touch, or just a word--immediately; no process involved. That is the gift of healing. Does this happen today? Can you point anywhere in the world where such an event is occurring? If not the gift of healing has ceased!
Tongues. The word means languages--known languages. They are real known languages, unknown to the speaker but known to the audience. Why do missionaries have to study the language of a foreign nation? Because this gift has ceased. Why did they need an interpreter? Because it was a sign to the Jew. It was probably interpreted back into Hebrew for the benefit of the Jew, a sign to the Jew (1Cor.14:21,22).
Where is this taking place today. Where do missionaries have no requirement of studying the language because God grants them the ability to speak the language without a word of study? Don't give me an anecdotal incident. If this gift were going on today it would be popular, happening with great frequency--so often that very few missionaries would have to study foreign languages. Why is that not the case. Why? The gift of languages (tongues) has ceased. We have no evidence of these supernatural gifts occurring today.
Your personal interpretation says that. I don't believe that the Bible teaches that at all. And I believe that history backs me up. I challenge you to verify my above post. Where are they taking place today?
No, I am Biblical.That depends....are you Gnostic? :laugh:
I can demonstrate through the Bible that they have ceased (as I have done on these threads many times before).
And I can demonstrate historically that they have ceased.
Again, I ask, where's the proof? If they are taking place today where are they? Bring on the evidence.
That depends....are you Gnostic? :laugh:
Guess that DHK never heard of the "move" of the Holy Spirit, with "interesting" things during great Awaking , Eh?
even the puritans recorded the Spirit moved in "majestic" fashion among them
NOT saying MUCH of modern day pentacostal IS of God, But that satan DOES duplicate the Gifts, sows false doctrines and teachers in the flock, in order to discredit ANY validity to it!
Space aliens walk the face of this earth. Do you believe me? You would want me to give you at least some proof wouldn't you?
You have made a claim that certain things are happening. Give proof of your claim. Where is the evidence?
'For now', 'we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face.' Now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. :thumbs:
I have never seen or even heard of the sign gifts taking place as they took place in the Bible take place today or in current history.
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